.357 mag for blacktail

[RVTECH]

I all fairness I have NEVER shot a deer with a .357 - but I have shot a variety of varmints, rodents etc with .357 rifles over the years.

With proper bullet selection and well tested 'full house' reloads with the particular rifle I'll say 100 yards MAXIMUM given a clean, clear unobstructed rested shot.

I would never trust any factory loads with .357 Mag for hunting. Too many 'iffys' and variables.

 

[OldBroad44]

Ahoy there,

I have a buddy with a winchester 1894c lever action in .357 mag. He thinks it is adequate for blacktails within 150 yards. What do you guys think?

Sure. With appropriate ammo. Much of the power of the .357 mag is wasted when shot from handguns. In a rifle length barrel the .357 mag is a whole different critter. This is why it is so valued in lever action rifles such as the Marlins. Many people, me included, would need a scope to reach out to that distance. But not everyone. The Buffalo Bore 180 grain hardcast Outdoorsman, for example, has a muzzle energy of about 700-800 ft. lbs at the muzzle fired from a 5" barrel. It has about the same ft. lbs. fired from an 18" Marlin at 150 yards. It would have a bullet drop of about 9". That's very workable. (Data summarized from info at Buffalo Bore on their 180gr Outdoorsman)

 

[The Heretic]

.357 Magnum

.357 magnum history and bullet performance

www.ballisticstudies.com

Personally, I would not go beyond 100 yards except maybe with hot ammo intended for a rifle, and only then if I had tested the accuracy and drop at that distance with the rifle.

I have never shot a deer beyond 100 yards - in western Oregon you rarely see them at that distance except in open fields or power line clearings, and then they are often quite a ways out there. So under 100 yards I wouldn't have a problem with .357 Mag with the right ammo - indeed, I have deer that come right up to my house (just this morning I can see tracks in the snow that came within inches of my porch.

I don't hunt anymore and I don't care for venison meat (I usually gave most of my deer to my parents who loved venison). I don't have a rifle in .357 - my centerfire lever actions are in .44 mag, .45-70 or .308.

 

[Bobbygun]

Adequate? Uh, maybe, almost, sorta. If that's all he has, it's better than not hunting. I'd recommend keeping shots to 100 yards or less.

So many better calibers out there though...

 

[OldBroad44]

With the proper style bullet , sure it could be done.
Shot placement here will play a big role in how this all works out.
However deer seldom give a hunter that perfect shot set up....and 150 yards is a long ways out there.

Also game laws vary from state to state..is .357 Magnum legal for deer in Oregon...?
Andy

Back in the 1980s shortly after I moved to Oregon, I was hunting deer with a 4" Colt .357 mag. This was in the Coastal mountains, the Alsea area. I hunted in valley bottoms in the morning. It was easy to fill my tag with my 4" .357. The valley bottoms were foggy. Visibility was usually about 50 yards till about 10. Any deer I could see I could hit as long as it was standing still or just walking slowly . The deer ambled around foraging, paying little attention to hunters, just tip toed around them, confident in their invisibility. I would usually just sit down on a garden pad I brought with me, my back against a tree, at the edge of a clearing with good forage. Fog is a fickle thing. Sometimes it would thin or vanish transiently, and there would be a deer just foraging in plain sight, perfectly aware of me but still convinced it was invisible .And I played along and never looked directly at it while I was evaluating it or until it walked or turned so as to give me a broadside shot. I just acted like a stupid oblivious person with no ears or nose, and blinded by fog, like the deer apparently thought I was. Until I lifted the gun, turned my head, and fired in one swift motion.

My range limit for offhand or sitting positions was 75 yards. That was the distance at which I could keep all shots within 3" of point of aim. The longest range I took a deer at was 60 yards. The shortest was 12'. Shot that one in the head. Six total. All young bucks. No impressive racks. But legal and tasty. One per hunting season. All one area, an area I had camped in in summer and was very familiar with.

I used Winchester 158 gr JHP Silvertips. Most deer hunters using .357 mag would have used a 125 gr hp. However, I had found 158 gr bullets were more accurate in my 4" Colt. And the 158gr Win Silvertip was reputedly the 158gr jhp load most likely to open up. Except for the one deer I took at 12' from with a headshot, I always shot them through the lungs in a broadside shot. They usually leaped once and folded . Sometimes just folded. When deer presented some other way I passed and waited till it turned broadside . Or until some other deer came along that was more cooperative. I was not convinced that my 158 gr. JHP bullet could reliably get through a shoulder joint into the lungs and put the deer down instead of turning into a tracking problem. I was unenthusiastic about tracking. I also passed on straight frontal shots because I was also unenthusiastic about butchering a deer in which the bullet had passed through lungs into guts. There were plenty of deer. I always got mine the morning of opening day. So did most of the local Alsea valley folks I knew.

If I were carrying 180 gr hard cast flat nose bullets I think the shoulder shot would be optimal, smashing through joint and scattering bone fragments into lungs. But the broadside shot would likely often zip through and create a tracking problem. I chose hps and broadside shots because I seemed to get plenty of broadside opportunities, and they didn't ruin as much meat. (This was before my .44 mag era. For deer hunting, the big advantage of the .44 over .357 is not just that it does more damage but that the right bullet can be effective with either a shoulder or broadside shot.)

By about ten am the fog would lift and the deer would leave the mountain valleys and hide out, often in rugged clear cuts several hundred yards across. In the foggy valley bottoms the rifle hunters had little advantage over me. Most of them usually took their deer at 50 yards or less, just like I did, even the guys with the fancy scoped 300s that they could take deer with at 500 yards. Because 50 yards is as far as they could see. But in the clear cuts the rifle hunters came to the fore. But from my point of view they were welcome to the clearcuts. I was hunting by myself. If I did get a deer in a clear cut I don't know how I would have got it out.

 

[Tlock]

Can it be done? Ya probably so. Is it ideal? Ethical? I've done alot of deer and elk removal over the years, in areas that are not conducive to shooting big boar rifles. With lots of practical and knowing your tools, a 22 lr is my choice for deer removal and 22-250 works great for elk. Obviously this totally different situation than actually hunting.

 

[dangerranger60]

The only thing that would keep me from using a 357 mag rifle out to 150 yds is my own eyesight. from a rifle barrel the bullet only drops 3 to 5 ". Where my eyesight comes in is being able to line up open sights at that distance. I don't scope my lever guns, I just use them for up close brush hunting. DR

 

[OldBroad44]

Can it be done? Ya probably so. Is it ideal? Ethical? I've done alot of deer and elk removal over the years, in areas that are not conducive to shooting big boar rifles. With lots of practical and knowing your tools, a 22 lr is my choice for deer removal and 22-250 works great for elk. Obviously this totally different situation than actually hunting.

Legal vs ethical. Right. The OR state laws let us use any center fire handgun from .22 up to hunt deer. But in very few cases would it be ethical to try to take a deer with a deringer or a .25 Pocket pistol unless it was near point blank.

Is 22-250 your preference for Elk removal? If so why? And with elk at what kind of range? And what kind of shots? Broadside? Shoulder? Head only?

 

[The Heretic]

But in the clear cuts the rifle hunters came to the fore. But from my point of view they were welcome to the clearcuts. I was hunting by myself. If I did get a deer in a clear cut I don't know how I would have got it out.

The last deer I took (IIRC - I don't think I went deer hunting after that - I only hunted elk afterwards) was a nice buck up in the hills above the Alsea river. I went down into the bottom of a gully and sat on a stump at the edge of a clear cut, with my family heirloom .30-30. Shortly a doe walked out about 20' from me, and she kept looking back into the woods. After about 10 minutes out came the buck, with eyes only for the doe. I waited until he was abreast of me and took him with one shot.

It took us (myself and my hunting partner) from about 6PM until midnight to get that buck up the gully to the road.

I swore after that I was never going to take any animal in the bottom of a gully again. That was 45 years ago and I am certainly in no better shape now than I was then.

 

[Spitpatch]

Ahoy there,

I have a buddy with a winchester 1894c lever action in .357 mag. He thinks it is adequate for blacktails within 150 yards. What do you guys think?

Your buddy thinks it is adequate.

From somebody who has actually killed deer (and antelope) with a .357 handgun, none over 110 yards, the more important question is:

Is your buddy "adequate"?

 

[Tlock]

Legal vs ethical. Right. The OR state laws let us use any center fire handgun from .22 up to hunt deer. But in very few cases would it be ethical to try to take a deer with a deringer or a .25 Pocket pistol unless it was near point blank.

Is 22-250 your preference for Elk removal? If so why? And with elk at what kind of range? And what kind of shots? Broadside? Shoulder? Head only?

45 gr hollow point and head shot only, typically within 100 yards. I know the 250 will not pass threw, basically just explodes on there head. Alot of times there are businesses or buildings around and pass thew could be a comple disaster. Pass threw is also a problem when trying to target 1 specific animal, it's always bad to wound a non target animal

 

[Koda]

Years ago I worked with an old timer from Montana (of course) that swore by hunting elk with a 22-250. Said you hit em where it counts they just drop. Then there's legendary Alaskan trapper/hunter Frank Glaser who hunted moose with his 220 Swift and became famous for it.
Im not advocating for any of this, somewhere there's a limit for species and a 22cal for elk hunting isn't anything I will recommend for hunting.

I think a 357 rifle is capable for deer but 100yds max. I personally would get a different rifle even for blacktail. Blacktails like brush, but I cant think of any blacktail environment that also doesn't offer 2 and 300yd shots.

 

[Tlock]

Years ago I worked with an old timer from Montana (of course) that swore by hunting elk with a 22-250. Said you hit em where it counts they just drop. Then there's legendary Alaskan trapper/hunter Frank Glaser who hunted moose with his 220 Swift and became famous for it.
Im not advocating for any of this, somewhere there's a limit for species and a 22cal for elk hunting isn't anything I will recommend for hunting.

I think a 357 rifle is capable for deer but 100yds max. I personally would get a different rifle even for blacktail. Blacktails like brush, but I cant think of any blacktail environment that also doesn't offer 2 and 300yd shots.

Ya for hunting I choose to use my 22-250 for deer and 300wsm for elk.

 

[DirectDrive]

I found the .357 mag to be lacking for killing deer, went to a .44 mag and never looked back.

This would be a much better plan for a revolver cartridge in a levergun for deer.

 

[Koda]

Ya for hunting I choose to use my 22-250 for deer and 300wsm for elk.

I used to think a 22cal (centerfire) was too little for deer. Used to....
Few years ago murphys law kicked in the middle of deer season and the only rifle I had to fall back on was my 223 AR15. I grabbed that and headed out the door and the terminal performance of that tiny pill was devastating and not really any different then its larger counterparts. A 22-250 would be even better I would think.

 

[bumpus]

Buddy scoped his 1894c and it was so consistent. He could shoot golfballs with it 50 to 75 yds... He made a gaame where he'd throw out 8 balls and whoever could get them closest to a mark downrange was the winner. It was a lot of fun.

 

[OldBroad44]

This would be a much better plan for a revolver cartridge in a levergun for deer.

.44 mag is an even better cartridge than .357 mag for hunting deer with revolvers. But taking a deer as efficiently as possible is not necessarily the point.

That 4" Colt .357 I did my first deer hunting with was also my edc, woods carry gun, and home defense gun. I was choosing it to hunt with in part to convince myself I could instantly stop a human attacker if I needed to. Many people carry .357 mag revolvers for SD in the woods, and many still prefer them for home defense or as edcs, finding .44mags in sizes large enough to enjoy shooting as too big to conceal or too heavy to carry. And if a .357 is the gun you use for serious business, it may make sense to expand your skill and/or confidence by hunting with it.

Lately I've been drawn back to the idea of hunting blacktail deer again. Whether I can get back in good enough shape for the walking and deer carrying is an issue. I just turned 78. We will see. These days a scoped .44 mag will be the way to go. My eyes are not what they were 40 years ago. Of course, a rifle would be more efficient if just harvesting deer was the point. But to me, doing it with a handgun is an essential part of the challenge.

 

[orygun]

Yessir, I believe in Oregon for deer any centerfire cartridge that's over .22(1)cal is legal.

Centerfire being the point, but there is no doubt many deer have been taken with a 22LR.

I think a 357 rifle is capable for deer but 100yds max. I personally would get a different rifle even for blacktail. Blacktails like brush, but I cant think of any blacktail environment that also doesn't offer 2 and 300yd shots.

The environment might offer those distances, but I'd suggest not hunting them with a .357.
Instead hunt the areas around those places. Your shooting distances will be reduced dramatically.
The longest distance I ever shot a deer at was maaaaybe 65 yards. I've shot the rest at 30 yards or less.
Most of the time, though, the rifle I am carrying has capability farther out than I'd likely shoot a deer at.
I prefer that over the opposite.

 

[Koda]

The environment might offer those distances, but I'd suggest not hunting them with a .357.
Instead hunt the areas around those places. Your shooting distances will be reduced dramatically.
The longest distance I ever shot a deer at was maaaaybe 65 yards. I've shot the rest at 30 yards or less.
Most of the time, though, the rifle I am carrying has capability farther out than I'd likely shoot a deer at.
I prefer that over the opposite.

If all I had was a 357 rifle Id have no choice but to stay inside the timber edges.
But Ive glassed deer out in open cuts from timber edges, I like having a rifle that does both as Ive had to pass up a nice buck one year just out of range. I do love lever guns though.


Not to derail the OPs thread subject. Hunt with the rifle one has and be good with it and it will fill tags. The 357 is plenty if he stays inside its range and 100yds or less is most shots in most blacktail country.

 

[osprey]

I would have no problem with a scoped .357 mag levergun and good bullet in a full power load, out to 150yds. Open sights and my aging eyes I would stay 100yds or less. I have not thought about it but that may be legal in WA also as I believe it just says centerfire rifle larger than .243.