338-06 Springfield 1903

[ParsonBart]

Hi, all,

I recently picked this Remington made 1903 at the LGS. It has a two-position safety, Fajen stock, and has obviously had the sights milled off. The action is tight, and it has a decent original two-stage trigger. I have a Leupold 2x7 new in the box ready for mounting. The plan is to ship this off to JES right after Christmas to have it rebored to .338-06. I have been planning this budget build for quite a while to use in the bear infested areas I hunt elk and deer in. I intend to use nothing lighter than 225-250 grain bullets, and have started picking up some components, specifically an old box of Hornady spire points, and 2 boxes of 225 partitions. Please talk to me about your experiences with this cartridge, the 1903 action, and share any reloading data or results you have.

Thanks!

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[Sxsnuf]

That seems like a great deal for an old warhorse!
When we lived down the road in Townsend, Capitol Sports & Western was a regular stop.
We loved that place!
If the barrel diameter allows, 35 Whelen ammo MIGHT be easier to find?

 

[TTSX]

I'm curious if it'd be cheaper to buy a barrel already for the .338 bullets than to have one bored out?

 

[Sxsnuf]

If the barrel diameter allows, 35 Whelen ammo MIGHT be easier to find?

I'm sorry. I missed the part where you're collecting "components".
If rolling your own, 338-06 makes perfect sense. It's been along time since I read an article in 'Rifle' magazine about that cartridge, but I seem to remember it's a more efficient use of the 06 case.

 

[Flandersfields]

I had a remington 06 done to a 338-06 by jes some years ago , he gave me a load that in his words was do not waste time this is what works , it is a great caliber all in all , as to the 03 , that is one of my favorite rifles , grandpas old 03 in 06 was a accurate rifle and I have a few sporters that are drilled and tapped for peep or scope , I had the one rebored by jes to 375-06 and put a boyds stock on it for if I ever get the urge to hunt big bears.

Jes does a great job and is a good person , I dropped off both rifles and saw his set up , his load for the 338-06 was 60 grains of 414 with a hornady 225 sp , card is tacked up in loading room .

Cost is cheaper to have him bore your barrel ,over getting a new barrel (price one ) then add in a gunsmith to do the work or buy your headspace guages and ream one , now I have seen some barrels prices that were close but the add ons get you .

As to ammo , he is loading his own , 30-06 brass or any based on it make conversion easy . Headstamp is a issue for some , well marked boxes work for me as I have more then a few aquired rifles that started out as a different cartridge and brass is not readily available for .

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

So we are just not going talk about how you absolutely stole that!

Closest I have had the pleasure of shooting was as similarly stocked Amuser converted to 8mm-06, as a younger man I loved shooting it (it was a friends that he had gotten from his father) but never got chance to hunt with it. I'm still a big fan of that general class of cartridges

 

[ParsonBart]

So we are just not going talk about how you absolutely stole that!

Closest I have had the pleasure of shooting was as similarly stocked Amuser converted to 8mm-06, as a younger man I loved shooting it (it was a friends that he had gotten from his father) but never got chance to hunt with it. I'm still a big fan of that general class of cartridges

There is an 8mm-06 at the same place for about the same money. It has a big, fat stock finished in a lighter color, and with mother of pearl diamond inlays. It was heavy, but pretty cool.

I could not believe the price on it.

 

[ParsonBart]

That seems like a great deal for an old warhorse!
When we lived down the road in Townsend, Capitol Sports & Western was a regular stop.
We loved that place!
If the barrel diameter allows, 35 Whelen ammo MIGHT be easier to find?

I am absolutely handloading for it. I have looked at the .35 many times, but I keep coming back to the .338. It is almost a toss-up for me.

 

[ParsonBart]

I'm curious if it'd be cheaper to buy a barrel already for the .338 bullets than to have one bored out?

It is way cheaper to rebore. You are looking at about $350 shipped. That wouldn't hardly buy the barrel. JES has an amazing reputation spanning decades.

 

[ParsonBart]

I had a remington 06 done to a 338-06 by jes some years ago , he gave me a load that in his words was do not waste time this is what works , it is a great caliber all in all , as to the 03 , that is one of my favorite rifles , grandpas old 03 in 06 was a accurate rifle and I have a few sporters that are drilled and tapped for peep or scope , I had the one rebored by jes to 375-06 and put a boyds stock on it for if I ever get the urge to hunt big bears.

Jes does a great job and is a good person , I dropped off both rifles and saw his set up , his load for the 338-06 was 60 grains of 414 with a hornady 225 sp , card is tacked up in loading room .

Cost is cheaper to have him bore your barrel ,over getting a new barrel (price one ) then add in a gunsmith to do the work or buy your headspace guages and ream one , now I have seen some barrels prices that were close but the add ons get you .

As to ammo , he is loading his own , 30-06 brass or any based on it make conversion easy . Headstamp is a issue for some , well marked boxes work for me as I have more then a few aquired rifles that started out as a different cartridge and brass is not readily available for .

I would love to see a 375-06. That sounds amazing!

I love old mausers and 03's. I like the classic look of the Griffin and Howe sporters, and this one fits the bill.

I had a sporterized Krag for years, and stupidly sold it when I moved to SD. I ran a mild load of 3031 with 210 grain hardcasts with a gas check. Never had a deer take a single step.

I have been running a pair of pre-64 Winchesters (inherited) in .270 (post-war) and 06 (pre-war). I love them both, and have probably killed 150 animals with them, but I really feel under gunned with the increase in grizzly activity where I am at. I really think this will do the job.

 

[titsonritz]

.

 

[bcp]

How is the 30-06 barrel interior?

Will a bear be able to feel the difference between a 338-06 225 -250 grain bullet and a 30-06 200-220 grain bullet?

I think the338-06 rebore is a sideways and slightly upward move. A 338 Winchester would be a full step upwards.

Bruce

 

[bionic knees]

No, it will not feel any difference. Get a .338 win mag and don't fret the situation. I have a nice one for sale here.

 

[ParsonBart]

How is the 30-06 barrel interior?

Will a bear be able to feel the difference between a 338-06 225 -250 grain bullet and a 30-06 200-220 grain bullet?

I think the338-06 rebore is a sideways and slightly upward move. A 338 Winchester would be a full step upwards.

Bruce

Keep in mind I am extolling the virtues of the 338-06 without actually using one, and also remember that I am looking for a non-magnum heavy rifle that will shoot in the 300-400yd range if needed, and be used for elk and deer, with a secondary role of stopping heavy boned predators at closer ranges. I am dismissing the magnum because all the deer I see shot with 7mm, 300wm, and 338wm have a ton of bloodshot meat. I was hunting with my cousin the end of last month, and he took a smaller Mule deer buck with a well placed neck shot with his 300 at 75-80yds. Though he did not touch either shoulder, both were ruined.

The 30-06 with heavy bullets (I am also developing a load for that as we speak for use in one of my "loaner" guns) is a marginal bear gun. Maybe good for hunting a bear, but not nearly as effective as I want for stopping an aggressive one. My old Speer reloading books say the 338-06 nudges out the .35 Whelen for ballistics, and beats the 300wm for bears.

The 338-06 has about the same trajectory with 225 grain bullets as a 30-06 has with 180 grain bullets. It also pushes the same energy at 300yds as the 30-06 carries at 200.

The 338-06 is square in the middle of the .30-06 and the 338wm. It is a solid 200fps faster than an 06, and between 100-200fps behind the Win Mag.

A bigger bullet with a bigger wound channel absolutely hits harder. I have killed a few deer with a 30-30 using 170 grain bullets, and killed about an equal number with a 200 grain 35 Remington. The 35 is noticeably different.

Another thing I read regularly is that the 338 bullets are of tougher construction than the 30 calibers because they are made for the Win Mag. At the slightly lower velocities of the 338-06, a cup and core bullet acts like a bonded bullet, offering good expansion and deeper penetration than the 30 caliber counterparts. I can see this from personal experience with my old .30-40 Krag. A heavy bullet at 2000fps worked wonders inside 100yds. They never even took a step, whereas often a deer will run a little with a .270 or .30-06. They still kill, but there is a difference in how hard they hit.

I hunt for meat, and not for sport. I have averaged five game animals per year for 40 years (do the math). Deer, elk, and antelope. I have zero experience with the 338, but I know the .30-40, .270, .308, .30-06 very well, and to a lesser extent, the .30-30, .35 Rem and .45-70. What I read rings true with what I know about other cartridges.

I believe that is the majority of the reasoning that brought me to the .338-06, with a side note about the ease of making brass, and that some folks have had problems with headspacing on a .35 Whelen due to the narrow shoulder of the case.

 

[orygun]

Some people may know this cartridge as the 338-06 A Square.
I would think the primary reason for choosing this over the 35 Whelen would be the choices in bullets available, most hunting bullets.
I also think it would be better than a Whelen because of the sectional density of the 338 bullets.
People have killed almost everything with a 30-06. A little bigger/heavier bullet at the same or better speeds can't be a bad thing.

 

[bcp]

^^^Good thoughts, PersonBart. ^^^

Have you considered the 9.3x62?

From:

9.3×62mm - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"Apart from hunting class 3 game, the 9.3×62mm is often used for last resort defense against dangerous class 3 game, particularly the great bears including brown and polar bears. It is often carried by fishermen, hunters, and guides in European arctic regions like Greenland for protection as encounters with these larger bear species can be common."

Bruce

 

[DirectDrive]

JES is getting some less than savory reviews lately on another forum.
Projects running late.
Communication not so great.
One complained of shallow grooves.

A common complaint is crooked/funky barrel marking (ID-ing the new chamber)
If you like clean barrel marking, tell JES not to do it and have it done by a local engraver.

 

[ParsonBart]

^^^Good thoughts, PersonBart. ^^^

Have you considered the 9.3x62?

From:

9.3×62mm - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"Apart from hunting class 3 game, the 9.3×62mm is often used for last resort defense against dangerous class 3 game, particularly the great bears including brown and polar bears. It is often carried by fishermen, hunters, and guides in European arctic regions like Greenland for protection as encounters with these larger bear species can be common."

Bruce

I really appreciate the the 9.3. In my admittedly dated Speer reloading manual, the 338-06, 35 Whelen, and 9.3 run neck and neck (and frankly, the 358 Winchester and 350 Remington Magnum should be in the running). The 9.3 brass is harder to form, often requiring a second shoulder for proper head space and fire forming, and a great lack of bullet choices. The 35 Whelen has almost exactly the same against it. Neither is significantly harder hitting or faster than the 338-06.

Each one of those three has something better going for it than the other two. It was actually a tough choice. I have been researching for most of this year. I chose tough bullets with ease of case forming, and slightly better ballistics.

 

[ParsonBart]

JES is getting some less than savory reviews lately on another forum.
Projects running late.
Communication not so great.
One complained of shallow grooves.

A common complaint is crooked/funky barrel marking (ID-ing the new chamber)
If you like clean barrel marking, tell JES not to do it and have it done by a local engraver.

I have spoken to him twice. He is definitely busy, but 4-6 weeks out vs several months (plus the costs) of a rebarrel tips in his favor.

Shallow grooves would be the second genuine unfavorable comment I have heard. I wonder why? Was the old barrel oversized? Really worn? Was the new bore really close in diameter to the old bore? Was there a defect in the barrel that had to be cleaned up? Most importantly, how does it shoot? I would want more info.

The barrel marking has been mentioned for almost two decades in forums. I think it is funny, and it doesn't bother me a bit.

If it turns out to be less than satisfactory, or if I am way off mark on something, I will let everyone know, but I have confidence that it will be just right.

 

[DirectDrive]

I have spoken to him twice. He is definitely busy, but 4-6 weeks out vs several months (plus the costs) of a rebarrel tips in his favor.

Shallow grooves would be the second genuine unfavorable comment I have heard. I wonder why? Was the old barrel oversized? Really worn? Was the new bore really close in diameter to the old bore? Was there a defect in the barrel that had to be cleaned up? Most importantly, how does it shoot? I would want more info.

The barrel marking has been mentioned for almost two decades in forums. I think it is funny, and it doesn't bother me a bit.

If it turns out to be less than satisfactory, or if I am way off mark on something, I will let everyone know, but I have confidence that it will be just right.

Looking forward to your review of the project.