30-30 outperforms .308 and 30-06 at 100yds?

[RVTECH]

the .30-30 is an "inherently accurate" cartridge.

They definitely can be!

 

[Mark W.]

I started with a 1958 Winchester model 94 of my dads and that is what I hunted with for two years until my younger brother started hunting the 94 when to him and dad put the Model 71 in my hands and told me not to flinch. That .348 Win was a bit of a step up from the 30-30 I stil have three rounds and the box that they came in from the box I hunted with when I carried the model 71.

 

[DeanMk]

Hey guys,

If you don't wanna hunt with a .30-30, that's fine. Use whatever you want, but if you think the old Winchester round is too weak for the job of deer hunting, let's not forget that Kaiser Wilhelm used to hunt Stag (which, size-wise, is between a white tail and an elk) with a Luger carbine PISTOL in 7.65 caliber.

 

[pharmseller]

Hey guys,

If you don't wanna hunt with a .30-30, that's fine. Use whatever you want, but if you think the old Winchester round is too weak for the job of deer hunting, let's not forget that Kaiser Wilhelm used to hunt Stag (which, size-wise, is between a white tail and an elk) with a Luger carbine PISTOL in 7.65 caliber.

How many did he wound and not recover?

 

[DeanMk]

None.

 

[The Heretic]

TL;DR

I don't think the .30-30 "outperforms" the .308/.30-06, but I will say that my grandfather hunted deer, elk and bear at a time when that was how he fed his family, with the family .30-30, and I have taken deer with that very same rifle, as have several other family members besides my grandfather.

"If you get close enough"? Certainly - distance to target and skill/patience is an issue with any rifle/cartridge. I would think that goes without saying.



That is me and the .30-30 and the deer I shot with the rifle in the Alsea river area about 42 years ago. The distance was about 10 yards. It only took a bit of patience sitting on a stump at the bottom of a ravine and being in the right place at the right time. My older brother now has that rifle, but has promised it to me when he passes on. I currently have a Marlin 336 Youth model in .30-30 with a Scout scope on it - I consider that a very good hunting rifle for most any area west of the Cascades from BC down into California.

I don't hunt anymore because of my health - I just can't walk as far as is needed due to my back and heart. I gave it up about 20 years ago when the pain from my back got to be too much for me during an elk hunt in eastern WA, and now I know I could not do what I did to get that Alsea deer 42 years ago (hike down into a ravine to find and shoot the deer, then pack the deer back out, climbing back up the ravine in the dark until midnight using a rope in one hand and the deer in the other).

But I still have hunting rifles in .30-30, .308, .30-06 (my father's elk hunting rifle - a sporterized 03'-A3), .44 mag and .45-70 - all of which are more than capable of taking any game I am likely to encounter in the PNW if used with the right ammo and in the right situation. The handy Marlin .30-30 would probably be my first choice for west of the Cascades, unless elk hunting in which case I think my father would be proud to know I used it, and it might be more appropriate at the distances I might encounter an elk at.

YMMV - use what you like and are good with.

 

[Jay Walk]

I just inherited my Grandfathers 30-30, Dad says it put plenty of Elk in the freezer.

 

[RX-79G]

Different bullet shape as well. I don't think it is so inflammatory to state that a lower power round might perform better at closer range. Shouldn't it? I rely on .308 to be useful out at 400 yards, which means it started out with something extra.

 

[The Heretic]

Different bullet shape as well. I don't think it is so inflammatory to state that a lower power round might perform better at closer range. Shouldn't it? I rely on .308 to be useful out at 400 yards, which means it started out with something extra.

A lot depends on the design of the projectile.

With today's ammo, you can get a projectile that performs well and consistently with regards to expansion and weight retention, at ranges from point blank out to 4-500 yards. Of course it is going to have more energy close up, and quite probably different penetration, but as long as it doesn't blow up and damage too much meat close up, and gets to the vital organs, I don't see a problem

 

[RX-79G]

A lot depends on the design of the projectile.

With today's ammo, you can get a projectile that performs well and consistently with regards to expansion and weight retention, at ranges from point blank out to 4-500 yards. Of course it is going to have more energy close up, and quite probably different penetration, but as long as it doesn't blow up and damage too much meat close up, and gets to the vital organs, I don't see a problem

It isn't necessarily a problem that .308 doesn't work as well as 30-30 at 100 yards. It still works.

 

[DeanMk]

A lot depends on the design of the projectile.

With today's ammo, you can get a projectile that performs well and consistently with regards to expansion and weight retention, at ranges from point blank out to 4-500 yards. Of course it is going to have more energy close up, and quite probably different penetration, but as long as it doesn't blow up and damage too much meat close up, and gets to the vital organs, I don't see a problem

There's also the fact that bullets tend to be made these days, specific to a particular application.
A bullet made for a .30-30 is built lighter than one made for, say, a .300 Winnie Mag.
This is due to the power range each cartridge works in.
IF they'd had done those tests and used the .30-30 specific bullet for all 3 calibers, they would've noted either massive mushrooming of the recovered bullets, or those bullets would've disintegrated, when fired from either the .308 or the .30-06.
Flip that around and use a bullet more suited for the '06 in the .30-30 and you'll likely find little if any mushrooming of that bullet.
So its important to remember that a cartridge is a whole unit unto itself and those pieces have to work together harmoniously in order to garner successful results.
...this is what they're not telling you in that article.

 

[The Heretic]

There's also the fact that bullets tend to be made these days, specific to a particular application.
A bullet made for a .30-30 is built lighter than one made for, say, a .300 Winnie Mag.
This is due to the power range each cartridge works in.
IF they'd had done those tests and used the .30-30 specific bullet for all 3 calibers, they would've noted either massive mushrooming of the recovered bullets, or those bullets would've disintegrated, when fired from either the .308 or the .30-06.
Flip that around and use a bullet more suited for the '06 in the .30-30 and you'll likely find little if any mushrooming of that bullet.
So its important to remember that a cartridge is a whole unit unto itself and those pieces have to work together harmoniously in order to garner successful results.
...this is what they're not telling you in that article.

Yes - I believe I ran into that with the 7mm Rem Mag I bought back in the 70s - to my detriment and the cost of meat when the bullets blew up. Even with proper ammo, I think that cartridge is not suitable for deer at ranges under 100 yards.

 

[DeanMk]

Yes - I believe I ran into that with the 7mm Rem Mag I bought back in the 70s - to my detriment and the cost of meat when the bullets blew up. Even with proper ammo, I think that cartridge is not suitable for deer at ranges under 100 yards.

I was following up until that last part.....are you saying you don't think the 7mm RM is suitable for deer under 100 yards, or was that in reference to the .30-30?

 

[bpearce]

Round nose vs spitzer. ? Round nose bullets in a 30-06 or 308 is very devastating to say the least

 

[The Heretic]

I was following up until that last part.....are you saying you don't think the 7mm RM is suitable for deer under 100 yards, or was that in reference to the .30-30?

7mm RM - but that is based on experience on smallish deer at ranges less than 100 yards. I am not sure if it still holds true, but even with a well designed bullet, a 140gr projectile at 3200 fps on a deer that weighs 100# (typically - IME) seems excessive. The last deer I shot with that rifle, at 75 yards, the bullet went thru one shoulder and out the other, with excessive meat damage.

Of course, as I noted, that was 40+ years ago and I don't know what bullet Remington was using in their ammo - it might have been one designed for the cartridge, or they might have just used bullets for the 7x57 because they were handy. either way, it didn't seem appropriate. I was leery about downloading a belted magnum cartridge, given that I was just starting to reload - not sure if that is really appropriate either for the cartridge. Plus I found reloading a belted magnum to be a bit of a PITA at the time.

 

[DeanMk]

Ok, so yeah, that's another thing too.
TOO much gun for the application.
There's a lot of merit to that, as well, as your experience shows.
One reason why the .30-30 (or any of those older rounds, actually) work so well.
They're enough without being too much.
FWIW, I remember my dad got a Blacktail spike back in the 80's with his .30-30.
He was with my brother-in-law that day, and the BIL would joke that dad shot a "fawn".
Anyway, bullet opened up to about .620 caliber and they ended up with about 50 lbs. of venison for the effort.

 

[RVTECH]

They're enough without being too much.

And they have a 'cool factor' as well!

 

[po18guy]

A high percentage of these controversial claims are made primarily as clickbait. They are selling magazine subscriptions and YouTube channels. Mostly a buncha' hooey.

 

[DeanMk]

...sez the guy who's avatar is SLEDGE HAMMER.

 

[WAYNO]

I've shot a lot of deer over 50 years.

In most cases, either with .30-30 or .30-06, the bullet exited on the other side, with devasting results.

I don't know how anybody can measure that the .30-30 is more lethal, nor do I agree.