21 for a stripped AR lower?

[fogell]

So Ive been interested in getting an AR15 for about a year now and I finally decided I was going to buy a complete upper and build the lower. I started buying parts recently and the only things I still need are the complete upper and stripped lower. Yesterday I get an email that the lower I want will be in stock today. I wait at my computer until I can order it and right before I finalized the purchase I see that it says I must be 21 to buy it. I had never heard this so I chat with customer service and am informed that because it could be made into a pistol I must be 21. Within 15 minutes the lowers are out of stock and now Im trying to figure out how I can get this project done. Been waiting forever because stuff is so hard to find and now this setback.

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[Mr. Ben]

Buy one at a store, not online. If you want to make it a pistol, that decision is made on the paperwork when dealing with a stripped lower.

 

[TonsOfOregonBrass]

Buy one at a store, not online. If you want to make it a pistol, that decision is made on the paperwork when dealing with a stripped lower.

This is not correct. You cannot buy a lower if you are under 21. You cannot even buy a complete lower with a stock if you are under 21. You can only buy a complete rifle. All lowers transfer as an "other" and those can only be transferred to individuals 21 and over.

One way around this would be to take all your parts to a manufacturer. have them assemble the rifle for you and then "sell" you the complete Rifle. And a small plug for my self, if you bring it to my store in sandy we can help you get this done. Some places can even show you how to assemble the rifle if you do not know how.

 

[Nwcid]

Buy one at a store, not online. If you want to make it a pistol, that decision is made on the paperwork when dealing with a stripped lower.

As stated above this is false information.

As stripped lower is NOT a rifle since it does not meet the definition of a rifle in any way. Paperwork is NOT what makes a receiver into a pistol or rifle, how it is built does.

 

[wayoutwest]

This is not correct. You cannot buy a lower if you are under 21. You cannot even buy a complete lower with a stock if you are under 21. You can only buy a complete rifle. All lowers transfer as an "other" and those can only be transferred to individuals 21 and over.

One way around this would be to take all your parts to a manufacturer. have them assemble the rifle for you and then "sell" you the complete Rifle. And a small plug for my self, if you bring it to my store in sandy we can help you get this done. Some places can even show you how to assemble the rifle if you do not know how.

Is this also correct? Doesn't having a complete lower with stock make it a rifle...I recall something about once a rifle always a rifle

 

[Nwcid]

Is this also correct? Doesn't having a complete lower with stock make it a rifle...I recall something about once a rifle always a rifle

If it was ever a rifle it can NOT become a pistol. A stocked lower also does not meet the definition of a rifle. So until the receiver meets the definition of a rifle it is not a rifle.

 

[fogell]

This is exactly why I brought this up. It seems that I'm not the only one confused and there is some misinformation out there. I have never seen any of these laws posted anywhere and this is all new to me

 

[iamme]

Private party legit transfer if in OR. I'm NOT ADVOCATING A STRAW PURCHASE AND PLEASE NO THE DIFFERENCE.

However in OR you only have to be 18 to own a pistol/rifle/etc. so a private party can sell you a receiver. Hunt the forums here for one from someone- DO NOT HAVE A FRIEND GET YOU ONE. THAT IS VERY VERY BAD JUJU AND KARMA'S NAME IS BUBBA IN THE SHOWER

 

[iamme]

This is exactly why I brought this up. It seems that I'm not the only one confused and there is some misinformation out there. I have never seen any of these laws posted anywhere and this is all new to me

ATF added the other option to form a year or so ago because of this issue with stripped receivers that appeared. The advantage of it is ATF clarified simply having a stock on a lower does not make it a rifle. And it also clarified things for dealers (for better or worse) on how to handle transfers of items such as AR lowers/lower halves.

 

[fogell]

One way around this would be to take all your parts to a manufacturer. have them assemble the rifle for you and then "sell" you the complete Rifle. And a small plug for my self, if you bring it to my store in sandy we can help you get this done. Some places can even show you how to assemble the rifle if you do not know how.

So how would something like this work? Have a lower shipped to a shop, bring all the other parts I have, assembled there, and then sold to me as the complete rifle? And how much would something like that cost?

 

[wayoutwest]

ATF added the other option to form a year or so ago because of this issue with stripped receivers that appeared. The advantage of it is ATF clarified simply having a stock on a lower does not make it a rifle. And it also clarified things for dealers (for better or worse) on how to handle transfers of items such as AR lowers/lower halves.

SO, buying a complete lower half (with stock) is 4473ed as a lower or other, not as a rifle/pistol as it used to be. Since it is a receiver or other, I could change my mind on my build direction and make the same complete lower have into a pistol build by removing the stock/extension etc?

 

[das_napeth]

The ATF ruled last year that any receiver sold is just that " a receiver". They also ruled that if you were to register it as a pistol that you can build it back and forth at will between pistol and rifle as long as it doesn't make an NFA item while changing. If registered as a pistol, building a rifle out of it doesn't change the registration to rifle.

http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2011-4.pdf

 

[TonsOfOregonBrass]

So how would something like this work? Have a lower shipped to a shop, bring all the other parts I have, assembled there, and then sold to me as the complete rifle? And how much would something like that cost?

Cost depends on the build and if the parts are being bought here or on the internet. If you buy the parts from the shop then there usually is no charge. Otherwise you would be looking around $60 to assemble to a rifle... Which can sound like a lot, but all manufacturers have to pay excise tax on firearms that are "manufactured" which is = to %11 of the assembled retail price of the gun. So really we do not make anything because most AR's retail for more than $600.00.

 

[rur862]

Not sure why they didn't sell you an AR-15 lower receiver. I'm under 21 and I got one.
Might be a store by store thing. I once went to Cabellas and they refused to sell me 22LR because it could potentially be used in a pistol

Even if it is classified as a pistol, in Washington you are allowed to buy/own pistols if you're under 21 (although some of the more ignorant members of this forum don't realize this), you just cannot buy them from an FFL.

Better to keep it FTF anyways, no sales tax!

 

[Nwcid]

Not sure why they didn't sell you an AR-15 lower receiver. I'm under 21 and I got one.
Might be a store by store thing. I once went to Cabellas and they refused to sell me 22LR because it could potentially be used in a pistol

Even if it is classified as a pistol, in Washington you are allowed to buy/own pistols if you're under 21 (although some of the more ignorant members of this forum don't realize this), you just cannot buy them from an FFL.

Better to keep it FTF anyways, no sales tax!

How exactly is the OP going to get a receiver that he was planning on ordering without going though an FFL? Yes it is 100% legal for a person under 21 to own a pistol in WA but Federal law will not allow an FFL to transfer any firearm other then long gun to a person between 18 and 21.

Of course you dont have to pay sales tax on FTF but you are legally required to pay a "use tax" on it. Not that anyone does, see the other currently running thread on this topic.

 

[fogell]

Not sure why they didn't sell you an AR-15 lower receiver. I'm under 21 and I got one.
Might be a store by store thing. I once went to Cabellas and they refused to sell me 22LR because it could potentially be used in a pistol

Even if it is classified as a pistol, in Washington you are allowed to buy/own pistols if you're under 21 (although some of the more ignorant members of this forum don't realize this), you just cannot buy them from an FFL.

Better to keep it FTF anyways, no sales tax!

I could have bought it. It was online and right before I finalized the purchase I noticed it said must be 21. I could have bought it and have it sit at an FFL for over a year till I was 21..

 

[stlarm88]

When I purchased my stripped lower at a local shop, the guy behind the counter asked me if I wanted it to be a rifle or a pistol. He said it has to be registered as one or the other, then was effectively a rifle or pistol from then on. As I was 22 at the time age never came into the conversation.

Go to your local gun shop and ask them, they should know, then have them order you one if they can sell it to you.

 

[stlarm88]

So how would something like this work? Have a lower shipped to a shop, bring all the other parts I have, assembled there, and then sold to me as the complete rifle? And how much would something like that cost?

Way too much if you ask me. I took my lower in to get the bolt catch pin installed so I didn't scratch up my new reveiver. They told me to just leave everything I had, they put the whole lower togeather and charged me $70, eventhough I told them only the catch pin.

 

[TonsOfOregonBrass]

When I purchased my stripped lower at a local shop, the guy behind the counter asked me if I wanted it to be a rifle or a pistol. He said it has to be registered as one or the other, then was effectively a rifle or pistol from then on. As I was 22 at the time age never came into the conversation.

Go to your local gun shop and ask them, they should know, then have them order you one if they can sell it to you.

How long ago was this?

As a store owner i can tell you that it cannot be transferred to someone under 21. I can put it down on the form as a rifle and the OSP / ATF will not know the difference, but then i would be lying on the form and could lose my license. Which is not worth it just to sell a lower that i can probably only making $20 - $30 on. All lowers transfer as an Other, unless it has an upper on it. then it is either a rifle or pistol. No upper = Other and an Other must be 21 to buy.

 

[WhyteCheddar]

There is always the option of waiting till you are 21.