180 gr RN in 30-30

[pwfo]

I'm trying to shoot some Sierra 180 gr RN with a 30-30. The bullet tips don't strike me as too risky in a tubular magazine, but Sierra does not recommend it. They seem similar to the Nosler 170 gr Partitions in term of pointy-ness. Either way, I'll start out by single feeding them.

I have an extrapolated a load of 33 gr of Leverevolution that I'm thinking I will try.

Hodgedon recommends a 170 gr Sierra FN from 33 to 36 gr.
Barnes has a 150 at 32-36 gr and a 190 gr bullet with 30-34 gr LVR.

So I've settled on trying out 33 gr of LVR behind a 180 gr RN with two separate COLs - One that seats the bullet at the cannelure and creates an equal space in the case as the Sierra flat noses (does not feed from magazine), and another COL that seats the bullet with a similar COL as the Sierra flat noses (will feed from magazine).

Here's the photos - all with 33 gr of LVR. Left to right: seated at 180 gr cannelure, seated at same COL as other published loads, the 180 gr RN in question, then a 170 gr FN loaded at book length and the 170 gr.

What do you think? Am I overlooking something obvious here? Foolish to even try? This is the furthest I have deviated from book values in my young reloading career so just looking for a second set of eyes.
Thanks all.

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[Koda]

What do you think? Am I overlooking something obvious here? Foolish to even try? This is the furthest I have deviated from book values in my young reloading career so just looking for a second set of eyes

1st be sure the one seated to the cannelure isnt jamming the lands.
I cant deep dive for you but if Barnes closest match is a 190gn starting at 30gn, Id probably start at 30gn with HLVR and slowly work up, especially for the other COL seated deeper and into the case volume, thats a huge difference in pressure with the same charge weight. It might not hurt to start at 29gn to be honest, just one round will tell you a lot if you get pressure signs at 29gns, worth the one shot.

When extrapolating data with unknown results I start low with a pressure ladder before I begin actual load development, so I know where my top end is at. I would start at 29gn, 1 shot each increasing in .5gn increments to 33 or 34gn. If you find pressure signs before 34gn its no biggie to stop and pull 3 or 4 rounds but at least you will know what you can work with now.

I cant say its foolish to try but I just don't see the need to shoot heavies in a 30-30 not even for an elk load. Whats your goal with this project?

 

[RVTECH]

What do you think? Am I overlooking something obvious here? Foolish to even try?

Personally I believe 180 grain anything are TOO heavy for a .30-30 and serve no purpose.

'Shift gears' and try loading lighter bullets such as 100 - 125 grain and suddenly a 'whole new world' opens up with the .30-30. Oh, and reduce velocities with lighter powder charges to about 1700 FPS as well.

Obviously if you are planning to hunt with a .30-30 then yes, you would have to consider something heavier but for target shooting, varmint hunting etc. LIGHTER bullets are where the .30-30 'shines'.

Only been loading .30-30 for about 40 years and I have learned a few things about it along the way....

These are 110 grain FMJ loaded with 10 grains of Unique and are literally inside a dime at 100 yards.


100 Grain Speer 'Plinkers' are great bullet as well. Incredibly accurate at around 15-1600 FPS.

 

[Provincial]

If you do try to feed round nose reloads from a tubular magazine, at least use the "hardest" (least sensitive) primers you can find.

 

[pwfo]

1st be sure the one seated to the cannelure isnt jamming the lands.
I cant deep dive for you but if Barnes closest match is a 190gn starting at 30gn, Id probably start at 30gn with HLVR and slowly work up, especially for the other COL seated deeper and into the case volume, thats a huge difference in pressure with the same charge weight. It might not hurt to start at 29gn to be honest, just one round will tell you a lot if you get pressure signs at 29gns, worth the one shot.

When extrapolating data with unknown results I start low with a pressure ladder before I begin actual load development, so I know where my top end is at. I would start at 29gn, 1 shot each increasing in .5gn increments to 33 or 34gn. If you find pressure signs before 34gn its no biggie to stop and pull 3 or 4 rounds but at least you will know what you can work with now.

I cant say its foolish to try but I just don't see the need to shoot heavies in a 30-30 not even for an elk load. Whats your goal with this project?

Thank you for the feedback. Such a wealth of knowledge on this forum.

The goal is nothing more than to use some projectiles I bought by mistake and try to learn a thing or two from the outcome. Do not intend to hunt anything other than paper and steel with these loads. In fact - Sierra said that at 30-30 velocities, this bullet won't perform as intended... I'm reading between the lines of all the responses and realizing the juice may not be worth the squeeze, but I figure I could resell the box for maybe half of what I paid for it (~$25), or just chalk them up as expensive plinkers/learning.

My main concern with going below 33 was I reached out to Hodgdon and they mentioned that LVR is not to be underloaded. I have a harder time wrapping my head around the risks of under loading. 29-30 gr of LVR is below the starting load (except not for the Monoflex - a longer bullet, eats up more case capacity)... So as I type this out, I see what you're saying, I think. I'm creating two separate loads with my COLs so far apart. I'll focus on the loads that can be loaded from the magazine, which means I'm going to be stuffing the bullet pretty far into the case - thus more similarity to a longer Monoflex or Barnes bullet...

I like your suggestion and I think I will start a bit lower than 33. Your logic is a bit more thorough. I chose 33 because it fell in the range of every bullet weight from 135 up to 190s.

Thanks again!

 

[pwfo]

Personally I believe 180 grain anything are TOO heavy for a .30-30 and serve no purpose.

'Shift gears' and try loading lighter bullets such as 100 - 125 grain and suddenly a 'whole new world' opens up with the .30-30. Oh, and reduce velocities with lighter powder charges to about 1700 FPS as well.

Obviously if you are planning to hunt with a .30-30 then yes, you would have to consider something heavier but for target shooting, varmint hunting etc. LIGHTER bullets are where the .30-30 'shines'.

Only been loading .30-30 for about 40 years and I have learned a few things about it along the way....

These are 110 grain FMJ loaded with 10 grains of Unique and are literally inside a dime at 100 yards.

View attachment 2038565
100 Grain Speer 'Plinkers' are great bullet as well. Incredibly accurate at around 15-1600 FPS. View attachment 2038576

Funny you mention that, I'm actually in the process of exploring a lighter load too. I have some 135 gr Badman Bullets loaded with 8 gr of Titegroup that I haven't tried yet, but have loaded up. I'm more excited to start plinking with these than anything. How does this load sound? How low can I go with Titegroup? Is the worst case a squib?

I have one obstacle to the loads you mention - in my short reloading career, Unique has only been folklore. I've never seen it in stock. Do you have any other go-to powders for your lighter loads?

As I mentioned in the other response, my only purpose with these 180 gr loads is to use what I have and learn along the way - but maybe if I just keep asking you all questions, I can learn enough without chasing my tail on the 180s ha!

Thank you for chiming in and sharing some of your experience. I'm sure you've forgotten more than I know

 

[pwfo]

If you do try to feed round nose reloads from a tubular magazine, at least use the "hardest" (least sensitive) primers you can find.

Hmm. Makes sense, but would you mind educating me on how I'd identify which primers that is? Is one manufacturer known to be harder/softer than the others?

Currently, I'm working through some old RWS Sinoxid primers from 1974 that came with the press I bought off Craigslist.

 

[RVTECH]

I have some 135 gr Badman Bullets loaded with 8 gr of Titegroup

Where did you get this load data from?

 

[pwfo]

Where did you get this load data from?

QuickLoad. Your bluntness gives me the impression you're skeptical? Too hot?

 

[Provincial]

Hmm. Makes sense, but would you mind educating me on how I'd identify which primers that is? Is one manufacturer known to be harder/softer than the others?

Currently, I'm working through some old RWS Sinoxid primers from 1974 that came with the press I bought off Craigslist.

That is a question for a general reloading forum. Primers vary, depending on a specification. I believe that some military specifications require a primer that takes a very strong impact from the firing pin, to protect against inertial impact from free-floating firing pins. Perhaps for use in machine guns.

I have a friend who participates in competition pistol shooting, and when he reworks an action, the hammer strike is often light. He has identified certain primers that work with a light strike, and uses those in the reworked actions.

 

[bcp]

Don't worry about the round nose bullets. But do make sure thay are not loaded too long to function through your action.

Round nose full jacket 30-30 used to be common for guard cartridges and those wanting more penetration.





Bruce

 

[Koda]

My main concern with going below 33 was I reached out to Hodgdon and they mentioned that LVR is not to be underloaded. I have a harder time wrapping my head around the risks of under loading. 29-30 gr of LVR is below the starting load (except not for the Monoflex - a longer bullet, eats up more case capacity)... So as I type this out, I see what you're saying, I think. I'm creating two separate loads with my COLs so far apart. I'll focus on the loads that can be loaded from the magazine, which means I'm going to be stuffing the bullet pretty far into the case - thus more similarity to a longer Monoflex or Barnes bullet...

I like your suggestion and I think I will start a bit lower than 33. Your logic is a bit more thorough. I chose 33 because it fell in the range of every bullet weight from 135 up to 190s.

Like I mentioned I haven't deep dived into this for you, I also cant contradict direct advice from hodgdon... but, I also don't understand why HLVR cant be underloaded like any other powder. Ive heard in forums HLVR is "different" in that it gets slightly higher velocities in the old 30-30 but I don't know why or how. It has a burn rate like any other powder, which gives a result like any other powder. I use it in my 30-30 and it is fast but Im also loading a 143gn bullet.

 

[Provincial]

Do an internet search about CCI #34 primers.

 

[Koda]

How would a round nose bullet set off a primer?

 

[Provincial]

A FMJ spitzer bullet is far more likely to set off a primer from recoil in a tubular magazine, and the very conservative response was to use a flat nose bullet, probably originally one that was flat enough to contact the base of the cartridge case instead of completely on the primer. It appears that later, the flat nose was reduced when it was found that primers could handle this impact as long as it was spread out over the whole surface of the primer.

Remember, companies need to plan for the worst case scenario, including overly sensitive primers.

 

[arakboss]

I would start a tad lower, than 33gr with the charge. Maybe 31gr might be a good place to start, especially if you are seating them deep. I would only single feed these loads. Here is some data from Barnes for their 190gr bullet.

 

[pwfo]

I would start a tad lower, than 33gr with the charge. Maybe 31gr might be a good place to start, especially if you are seating them deep. I would only single feed these loads. Here is some data from Barnes for their 190gr bullet.

View attachment 2038825

Thank you. I think that's what I'll do. Start lower and work up with only those seated at a more standard 30-30 length. Appreciate the suggestion.

 

[arakboss]

Thank you. I think that's what I'll do. Start lower and work up with only those seated at a more standard 30-30 length. Appreciate the suggestion.

Wise decision.

To test the round nose/primer compatibility, You could load some dummy rounds with the round nose projectiles and live primers but no powder. Leave the dummy rounds in the mag tube while firing live manually fed rounds. Worse case is you'll have some primers in dummy rounds detonate in the tube. That probably won't damage the tube.

 

[Koda]

I dont understand the primer concern. A round nose bullet isnt going to set off a primer.

 

[RVTECH]

Your bluntness gives me the impression you're skeptical? Too hot?

Skeptical yes, however its not unusual to see loads with fast pistol powders used in reduced rifle loads. Too hot? IF the 8 grains is the maximum load given with TG I'd probably start with 6.

A round nose bullet isnt going to set off a primer.

No, It isn't. Commercial RN ammo has been available forever and many (including myself) have been loading 30-03 with RN bullets for as long as we have been loading .30-30.