115 vs 124 vs 147 Grain 9mm?

[Horn Ridge]

For range / practice ammo I have gone all in on 125 gr. truncated cone Blue Bullets the last 4-5 years. Cheap and easy to load, accurate out of everything and soft shooters. Literally just walked in 45 minutes ago from a quick round of therapy

 

[dangerranger60]

Well, yes I imagine it would hurt still but would there be much of a difference subsonic vs supersonic?

I will say this,
I have never remembered the report of a gun fired without ear pros that was shot at live game. But every time I have shot without in practice I REMEMBER!
Your brain kind of cuts it out. [ you are still doing damage to your ears though.] DR

 

[PiratePast40]

Way, way overthinking this. Bi-Mart has Blazer 124 and 115 grain on sale every few weeks for $229 or $239 a case. Practice, practice, and practice some more. Go ahead and buy some self defense ammo and see how it compares to POI of the ammo you've been practicing with and adjust if necessary.

Handgun proficiency is a perishable skill so you always need to be practicing, even if it's just dry fire.

 

[1911Fanatic]

Only my wife's p365 gets loaded with 115. Between 124 and 115 defensive rounds, the heavier bu\llets shoot\ low POI. The Critical defe\nse 115gr shoots to POA in that gun.

 

[Xmark1]

When I target practice, I prefer to shoot steel, and I can say that the 115 sounds like it hits harder. And since I shoot 115, 124, and 147's suppressed, I can speak with some experience on the subject.

I burn about 1.5 cases a month.

I know all the stories about terminal ballistics & penetration, yada, yada.
In the end, it's all about shot placement. Even a 22LR is an absolute killer.
I'm talking about two legged predators.

I shoot a hell of a lot of my handloaded 94 grain norma frangible at 1,400 FPS and it slaps the gong as loud as a 115 grain.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

I was wondering that. Will I be able to save my ear drums if I have to shoot in an emergency with no ear pro?

I don't hear any difference from the shooters perspective (unsuppressed I mean). Probably because the powder blast and sonic boom both originate from the muzzle.

It's different from the perspective of someone farther away. The point of origin for the sonic boom is the bullet while the point of origin for the powder blast is the muzzle. And sound decreases rapidly with distance. That's why even lowly 22 supersonic cracks are so loud and travel such a long ways even if a supressor is used. In contrast, a 22 subsonic out of a suppressor you may not be able to hear at all just a short distance away (no sonic boom).

Without getting into inverse square law etc, this video shows it best. Skip to 8:22 mark. First sound is sonic boom, second is muzzle blast.

View: https://youtu.be/HvNGTcake_o?si=8ML1wXdIFxFb-lZU

 

[widgeon22]

In 9mm, Federal 147 gr HST all the way. Whether the older version with the single cannelure or the newer double cannelure version, they both expand well and penetrate deep enough to do their job. It's a round that has incredible street cred. It's what I carry.

View: https://youtu.be/xQg_D7mcVRw?si=BaVJ4rIC1BwvuTA-

I agree 100%.

 

[Rhinobang]

I just ordered my first 9mm (G19) and I am trying to decide what ammo to stock up on. This gun will be carried for self defense but will also be shot a lot on the range as 9mm is much cheaper than .38 and .45.

Since this is a hangun, my first thought is that I need velocity to open up hollow points. 115 is also the cheapest and most widely available bulk practice ammo.

However, I have also heard that the heavier bullets shoot nicer (softer, less snappy). Will the slower 124 and 147 reliably open a hollowpoint out of gun this size?

Of course, I might be overthinking this coming from a 38 snubby where hollowpoint expansion is a bigger problem.

Fantastic choice in guns! I have a bunch of Glocks. The great news is that they run on just about everything. Any 9mm defense/hollow point will work for carry; and just about any luger/parabellum will run...it's got to be worse than junk ammo- or the gun is very dirty- for a G19 not to shoot, cycle, shoot again till you dump the mag. Even on switches, these things are just awesome. Have fun. "Strawberry jams, but my Glock doesn't."

 

[widgeon22]

The FBI used 147 gr Federal defense ammo for years. Don't know what they are using now. And my FBI friend, now retired, favors .45 ACP

 

[Cerberus Group]

First and foremost use whatever weight bullet that shoots to your sights.

As for expansion...as long as the bullet is in it's velocity range, it'll do what's needed as long as you do your job. Too much talk about bullet performance, and not enough emphasis on accuracy.

If a JHP doesn't open, or opens partially, you at least have a jagged nose wadcutter that will do good job of creating a solid wound channel...and won't over penetrate.

 

[dangerranger60]

First and foremost use whatever weight bullet that shoots to your sights.

As for expansion...as long as the bullet is in it's velocity range, it'll do what's needed as long as you do your job. Too much talk about bullet performance, and not enough emphasis on accuracy.

If a JHP doesn't open, or opens partially, you at least have a jagged nose wadcutter that will do good job of creating a solid wound channel...and won't over penetrate.

If a hollow point clogs it cuts through like a FMJ or an ice pick. The reason I use Wad Cutters in my J frame is I have yet to find a HP that reliably opens at standard pressure velocities.[ from my short J frame barrel.]
I once owned a bullet company, so I pay attn to how they work.
With a WC they at least they cut a full caliber hole as deep as they penetrate. And even at 700 fps they still penetrate well. And they are pretty accurate!
But I'm with you, Learn to shoot well!
the bullet nerd in me still is interested in how bullets work though. DR

 

[Cerberus Group]

First off, I've not seen a HP clog in close to 30 years.
HST, Gold Dot, Golden Saber, or XTP...nada. Even going through 4 layers of denim, they don't clog...the denim bleeds off enough velocity that it takes them out of their power band, and they don't perform. But they still have a blunt nose that cuts and plows and keeps them from over penetrating. In this state, they don't act like a FMJ.

Study the photo below. Bare Gel on the left, denim on the right. They don't clog, but still get the needed penetration, yet don't over penetrate. They act like a wadcutter. They plow into a flat face surface, cut a nice wound channel and stop well within the needed depth. My minimum standard depth for penetration is 16", max is 22"



Next is 9mm 115gr XTP running at 1,150 fps out of a 3.5 barrel...made for short barrel handguns, both semi-auto and revolver. 17-22" of penetration, even after going through 2 layers of denim, and 2 layers of T-shirt...and reliably expands to around .430"









If you can get the HP in their engineered power band, they will work...or if they don't, they will work in a different form.

 

[Ducati_Meister]

I carry in my 9mm guns the 147 HST loads as they are standard issue with the Sheriff's Office here and I figure it's one less thing that someone could use against me in court if I needed to use my carry weapon. Knowing WA and their stance on the 2A, however, but that's a different topic lol.

 

[Cerberus Group]

I carry in my 9mm guns the 147 HST loads as they are standard issue with the Sheriff's Office here and I figure it's one less thing that someone could use against me in court if I needed to use my carry weapon. Knowing WA and their stance on the 2A, however, but that's a different topic lol.

Unfortunately, there's different versions of justice depending on where you live.

West side, good luck...east side, a bit more understandable people.

 

[speedydave]

Another vote for Federal HST, I prefer 124s because all of my practice/competition ammo is also 124gr, and it feeds reliably in every pistol I've tried it in.

 

[dangerranger60]

First off, I've not seen a HP clog in close to 30 years.
HST, Gold Dot, Golden Saber, or XTP...nada. Even going through 4 layers of denim, they don't clog...the denim bleeds off enough velocity that it takes them out of their power band, and they don't perform. But they still have a blunt nose that cuts and plows and keeps them from over penetrating. In this state, they don't act like a FMJ.

Study the photo below. Bare Gel on the left, denim on the right. They don't clog, but still get the needed penetration, yet don't over penetrate. They act like a wadcutter. They plow into a flat face surface, cut a nice wound channel and stop well within the needed depth. My minimum standard depth for penetration is 16", max is 22"

View attachment 2168401

Next is 9mm 115gr XTP running at 1,150 fps out of a 3.5 barrel...made for short barrel handguns, both semi-auto and revolver. 17-22" of penetration, even after going through 2 layers of denim, and 2 layers of T-shirt...and reliably expands to around .430"

View attachment 2168417

View attachment 2168415

View attachment 2168414

View attachment 2168416

If you can get the HP in their engineered power band, they will work...or if they don't, they will work in a different form.

XTP and Golden Saber are two of my favorites. But I have yet to get them to reliably expand from a 2" or less barrel at standard pressure. It doesn't get them up to the velocities that make them reliably open. And those that don't open make the wound tracks that resemble FMJ bullets.
Being a bullet nerd, I have looked at a lot of gel tests and autopsy photos.
Now once I get over about a 3" barrel even at standard pressure they begin to reliably expand as they were designed. That extra inch of barrel makes a big difference in the velocity they can generate.
The other way to get them to expand is drive them at +P or magnum pressures. but that comes with shootability issues in an airweight gun. A 12 oz gun shooting mag pressures is painful to shoot. And does not encourage people to practice often.
A lot of people who shoot a snub well agree that a WC at standard pressure is their best compromise for carry ammo in a light weight gun. They cut a full caliber hole, they penetrate deeply for their speed, and are very controllable in a lightweight gun. DR

 

[Cerberus Group]

XTP and Golden Saber are two of my favorites. But I have yet to get them to reliably expand from a 2" or less barrel at standard pressure. It doesn't get them up to the velocities that make them reliably open. And those that don't open make the wound tracks that resemble FMJ bullets.

The 9mm pics above were shot through 2 layers of denim and 2 layers of T-Shirt, and out of a Glock 43x, M&P 3.5", S&W Shield, and a SP101 2.25"
The performance through each was close to the same for both penetration and expantion...they'll work in a short barrel, as they are low recoil and not +P

Being a bullet nerd, I have looked at a lot of gel tests and autopsy photos.

Your notes and mine differ from the HPs that don't open. Having been tableside for many bullets being pulled, there is a difference between a HP that doesn't open and a FMJ wound channel. A HP that doesn't open will plow to a stop within the good area of penetration without over penetration, and a better wound channel as well.

Now once I get over about a 3" barrel even at standard pressure they begin to reliably expand as they were designed. That extra inch of barrel makes a big difference in the velocity they can generate.
The other way to get them to expand is drive them at +P or magnum pressures. but that comes with shootability issues in an airweight gun. A 12 oz gun shooting mag pressures is painful to shoot. And does not encourage people to practice often.

I don't load anything +P, no need for excessive blast, recoil and beating both the gun and shooter, and still get performance from a short barrel. I've proved this many times, but as they say...you can lead a horse to water...with people, you can't even lead them to the water. People are way worse than horses. Sometimes I think the major manufacturers are lazy with having to redsign a bullet for different velocity windows.

A lot of people who shoot a snub well agree that a WC at standard pressure is their best compromise for carry ammo in a light weight gun. They cut a full caliber hole, they penetrate deeply for their speed, and are very controllable in a lightweight gun. DR

Wadcutters are king for a snub, but we're discussing 9mm here. A partially opened up HP will do much more amazing things than a wadcutter. Bigger wound channel, more cutting, and at times will end up flipping over, which add to the wound channel...and still not over penetrate.

But as always...choose what you think is best...carry on folks.

 

[Boyandhisdogs]

If a hollow point clogs it cuts through like a FMJ or an ice pick. The reason I use Wad Cutters in my J frame is I have yet to find a HP that reliably opens at standard pressure velocities.[ from my short J frame barrel.]
I once owned a bullet company, so I pay attn to how they work.
With a WC they at least they cut a full caliber hole as deep as they penetrate. And even at 700 fps they still penetrate well. And they are pretty accurate!
But I'm with you, Learn to shoot well!
the bullet nerd in me still is interested in how bullets work though. DR

I has the same concern when I started carrying a J frame but I found this load that I now carry. Speer started producing a line of "short barrel" gold dot .38+P loads that were specifically designed for J frames. They make them in both the "duty" and "personal protection" line but as far as I know they are the same slug at the same velocity.

It kicks a little more than cheap practice ammo but not much. Its definitely not as harsh as other +P ammo I have shot, and not quite the fireball either.

Here is a lab report on its performance:
38 Short Barrel Technical Data Package





Of the countless YouTube test videos I watched for 9mm, the Gold Dots and HSTs seem to be some of the most popular and effective. I will probably buy those in 124 since that's the heaviest size that also has cheap and available practice ammo.

 

[Cerberus Group]

Even the short barrel Gold Dots have spotty performance at best, and the penetration...in the chart posted is way underwhelming. We need to get 16" and above to get comfortable with penetration in actual shootings.

Again, this thread is about 9mm not 38 Special

 

[nammac]

I has the same concern when I started carrying a J frame but I found this load that I now carry. Speer started producing a line of "short barrel" gold dot .38+P loads that were specifically designed for J frames. They make them in both the "duty" and "personal protection" line but as far as I know they are the same slug at the same velocity.

It kicks a little more than cheap practice ammo but not much. Its definitely not as harsh as other +P ammo I have shot, and not quite the fireball either.

Here is a lab report on its performance:
38 Short Barrel Technical Data Package


View attachment 2168774


Of the countless YouTube test videos I watched for 9mm, the Gold Dots and HSTs seem to be some of the most popular and effective. I will probably buy those in 124 since that's the heaviest size that also has cheap and available practice ammo.

That 135 gr gold dot is what I carry in my J frame. I carry a reload of the same as well as 148 gr federal wadcutters, cause I can.