Winchester model 12

[U8395279]

That looks really great!!

Then take a look at my Dad's 1897. It is in quite pristine shape. It is a take-down model with original 20 inch barrel too.

I want to put it up for sale, but am having a hard time figuring out what it is worth. Its serial number is real high ( over 1 million ), so it is one of the last model 1897's that Winchester made.

Maybe I will take some close-up photos, and see if I can get some help in figuring out what it is worth.

 

[Certaindeaf]

The trench coat wearing hit man that died in the flaming wreck used a model 12.
Dang, and you're right.. the gunfight I referred to was in the getaway.
Saw them both back to back a few days ago.

 

[jbett98]

 

[Certaindeaf]

Yep. I said that in Bullitt a Model 12 was used, not the Getaway. Good gunfight near the end in The Getaway though.

 

[jbett98]

Then take a look at my Dad's 1897. It is in quite pristine shape. It is a take-down model with original 20 inch barrel too.

I want to put it up for sale, but am having a hard time figuring out what it is worth. Its serial number is real high ( over 1 million ), so it is one of the last model 1897's that Winchester made.

Maybe I will take some close-up photos, and see if I can get some help in figuring out what it is worth.


View attachment 214692

What does it say on the barrel in the way of a choke configuration?

 

[U8395279]

Yep. I said that in Bullitt a Model 12 was used, not the Getaway. .

I know that. A Winchester model 12 was not used in either movie. A takedown Model 97 was used in Bullit, and a High Standard 1200 was used in The Getaway.

I was simply pointing out another popular Steve McQueen movie that involved shotguns. I was not referencing anything that you said.

Two of my favorite western classics from the 60's, The Professionals from 1966 with Lee Marvin and Burt Lancaster, and The Wild Bunch in 1969 with William Holden and Ernest Borgnine, both featured the Winchester 97. As did The Wind and the Lion with Sean Connery and Candice Bergen in 1976, and The Untouchables in 1987 with Sean Connery and Kevin Costner.

More recently, HBO's miniseries The Pacific in 2010 featured a Winchester 97 in Episode 2, while showing the intense close fighting on Guadalcanal.

All of those are really good movies worth seeing.

Steve McQueen, though, really was one of a kind. We really don't have any actor today to compare with him.

The remake of The Getaway that was made in 1994 with Alec Baldwin and Kim Basinger was simply awful, though. That is definitely one movie to avoid.

.

 

[U8395279]

What does it say on the barrel in the way of a choke configuration?

It says Modified.

 

[jbett98]

If it said "CYL" then it would not be choked at all, and that would designate a riot gun barrel from what I've read about these shotguns.

On a side note, my neighbor down the street has a bunch of photos of him as a kid and Steve McQueen riding motorcycles around a private airport north of LA.
His dad was an airplane mechanic and McQueen would show up on some weekends with friends that flew out of the private strip.
He told me that he was the coolest man he ever met and treated him more like a buddy then a little kid.
One of my favorite pics is McQueen riding his Bonanza mini bike and trying to pop a wheelie.

 

[pdxjazz]

Then take a look at my Dad's 1897. It is in quite pristine shape. It is a take-down model with original 20 inch barrel too.

I want to put it up for sale, but am having a hard time figuring out what it is worth. Its serial number is real high ( over 1 million ), so it is one of the last model 1897's that Winchester made.

Maybe I will take some close-up photos, and see if I can get some help in figuring out what it is worth.


View attachment 214692

Thanks Lance,that is also a very nice one!!

Interesting that it's basically a factory 20" barrel "riot gun", yet has a modified choke commonly used for hunting ducks. No wonder you are having a hard time figuring out the value. Makes you wonder if it was a special order for use around lakes with heavy underbrush for easier maneuverability.

 

[beezer66]

You can also adjust the barrel to receiver lock up on the take down models if yours is a little sloppy.

I am glad that you said that, I didn't know. I thought that I had ruined it on a hunting trip to Treo ranch in Heppner, OR about 9 years ago. It was 15 degrees outside, the shotgun froze up and I couldn't rack the slide. After that trip, it was loose fitting between the barrel and receiver. Finding the Midway USA video, and adjusting the barrel fit, all is well.

I got my 12 gauge model 12 as a Christmas gift from my dad. I think he wanted his 16 gauge model 12 back; my grandparents bought it new in '48. That 16 gauge fits me like a glove, where I look, it hits.

 

[pdxjazz]

Lance, if you haven't seen this already you might try contacting these two places to try and get a value on your shotgun. <broken link removed>

 

[Mark W.]

Winchester shotguns

Model 1887 Lever action

Model 1893 First pump
evolved into the
Model 1897/97 second pump
which evolved into the
Model 1912/12 third pump
Which evolved into the 1200 pump

The 1897 was the WWI trench shotgun along with a couple other brands
The 1897 and model 12's and Ithaca model 37 were the trench guns in WWII

A 20" barrel marked modified is most likely a cut down.

 

[Throckmorton]

and the model 1901 lever action,10 gauge only.

 

[pdxjazz]

Winchester shotguns

Model 1887 Lever action

Model 1893 First pump
evolved into the
Model 1897/97 second pump
which evolved into the
Model 1912/12 third pump
Which evolved into the 1200 pump

The 1897 was the WWI trench shotgun along with a couple other brands
The 1897 and model 12's and Ithaca model 37 were the trench guns in WWII

A 20" barrel marked modified is most likely a cut down.

That would be true if the barrel isn't choked, but he said it was an original 20" barrel so I assume it does have a choke (easy enough to verify). You used to be able to order shotguns in your desired barrel length/choke from Winchester.

 

[Mark W.]

That would be true if the barrel isn't choked, but he said it was an original 20" barrel so I assume it does have a choke (easy enough to verify). You used to be able to order shotguns in your desired barrel length/choke from Winchester.

Yep and I didn't assume anything not mentioned. If the barrel is 20" long and marked Modified then it is MOST LIKELY a cut down. And it can be both the original barrel and a cut down.

Didn't say it couldn't possibly be a rare special order choked 20" barrel.

 

[U8395279]

That would be true if the barrel isn't choked, but he said it was an original 20" barrel so I assume it does have a choke (easy enough to verify). You used to be able to order shotguns in your desired barrel length/choke from Winchester.

So how does one verify that a shotgun barrel is choked or not?? This is not obvious to me.

If it was such a custom order gun, its resale value would be more, no? I sure would like to figure this matter out.

From the serial number I have been able to determine that my Dad's shotgun was made right near the end of the production for the 1897.

.

 

[jbett98]

If the barrel has been cut down and the original choke section removed, then the easiest way that I know to verify that the barrel has been altered is to remove the barrel, then take a 24" length of bare stiff copper wire (12 gauge house wire will do) and bend an ell leg at one end of the wire so it just fits side to side past the chamber where the shotgun shell is inserted.
If the wire fits smoothly all the way to the muzzle without constricting, then there is no choke and that will confirm that the barrel has been cut down.
On the other hand, if the wire starts to constrict near the muzzle, then one would assume it's a modified choke as marked on the barrel.

 

[pdxjazz]

You can also measure it. The cylinder bore of a Winchester shotgun barrel is .730". If it has a modified choke (.020" constriction) then the muzzle end ID would measure .710". If you don't already have a vernier caliper, something like this digital one will work and easy to read- http://www.amazon.com/Carrera-Preci..._5?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1426264712&sr=1-5

You can also pattern the shotgun into a 30" circle at 40 yards, but sticking a caliper on one end is much easier.

And then there is the old fashioned "dime method". I found a video to show you. My M12 cylinder bore has about as much play as this guys improved cylinder bore (Mossberg 500) . So a dime will be pretty snug with a modified choke in your '97