What Muzzleloader bullet to use?

[flashpan]

Got lucky and drew another late season cow Elk tag for the coast(Feb). After punching the tag this last Feb, I expect to find Elk and hopefully close. No challenge with a centerfire.
So the question is what bullet to use in a 54 cal? I'm am not entirely sure yet what is legal in OR ... sabots are illegal right?
The only Elk I have taken with the 54 was a CO cow elk at 75 yrds. Almost facing me. It took three of use 2 hours to track that cow and finish the job. The bullet passed thru one lung out the flank and back into a rear quarter. Here is a photo of the .54 420gr maxi ball. A heavy load with 120grs powder.
I learned a valuable lesson about BP projectiles, lack of bullet expansion and relatively low energy. Having said all this...what bullet(s) will put a Elk down better? The coast range woods are nasty thick and don't need a tough track and drag, not to mention a humane kill.
Thanks

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[Andy54Hawken]

What rifle are you using...?
Was the maxi ball made from pure lead or a mixture...some mixtures will not expand very well.
If you have a rifle with a slow twist*...a pure lead round ball can expand nicely and does the trick rather well...
At least in my experience.

* With that said...I have seen rifles with a fast twist , designed for conicals or other bullets work well with pure lead round ball.
Andy

 

[flashpan]

An old school percussion TC Hawken ... can't remember the twist but it shot the 420's well at 100yrds.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Interesting rifle...
I have seen the Thompson Center "Hawken Rifle " in .45 caliber .50 caliber and .54 caliber....but never in .58 caliber.
Seen the Thompson Center rifle called the "Big Bore" in .58
Not sure of the twist here in your rifle...Most T/C "Hawken" rifles that are in the .50 and .54 calibers use a 1-48 twist that will work with both conicals and round ball.

Pure lead might be of a help here....as I said in my first post...some mixtures of lead and other materials do not expand well at muzzle loading velocities.
Andy

 

[flashpan]

Thanks Andy
I'm really out of touch with what new bullets are on the market for this.
What I really want to do is buy the Pedersoli double 58 from Ben Lilly...but its too nice to Elk hunt in the coast range.
Cheers

 

[flashpan]

Since learned this from ODFW site about the area I am hunting:

During Any Legal Weapon seasons, hunters may use muzzleloaders with any ignition type (except matchlock), any legal sight, any propellant, or any bullet type provided the weapon meets caliber restrictions for the species.

Still like the traditional approach but...anyone shooting sabots ... how do they perform on (big) game animals?

 

[teb]

Mmpsabots.com
you can buy the red sabots and shoot a heavy 45 cal pistol bullet.

 

[matts]

Thanks Andy
I'm really out of touch with what new bullets are on the market for this.
What I really want to do is buy the Pedersoli double 58 from Ben Lilly...but its too nice to Elk hunt in the coast range.
Cheers

Since when is any rifle too nice to hunt with??
Aint sceerd.....

 

[RVTECH]

Since when is any rifle too nice to hunt with??
Aint sceerd.....

Maybe if it was very rare, historically important or had other intrinsic value then it might be too nice but I am reading (on other forums as well) people not wanting to hunt with their new, nicely wood stocked (whatever) and talk about getting some 'lessor' quality gun to hunt with.

I had an uncle who had a couple Browning Superposed Exposition grade shotguns he used to hunt dove and rabbits with - and if you have never seen one of these look it up.......

Regardless wood goes to the woods!

 

[flashpan]

The coast range on foot is just rough...and in Feb, it will rain 50% of the time. Heavy rain plus percussion and black powder not a good combo. Cleaning a nice blued gun every nite no fun. And blood on blueing is esp bad.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

I hunt with the firearm that I want to hunt with...
Be it a "nice" one or otherwise.

Commonsense here plays a role...
One of my hunting rifles is a original flintlock Trade Rifle circa 1800 ...
If its nasty weather...or if I am need of "hotter" than normal load...this is not the rifle to use.
Same for goes my flintlock fowler....Although I will hunt with this one in the rain.

My main hunting rifle is my often storied and pictured Hawken Rifle...
Many folks have called it too nice to hunt or shoot with.

I do think that it is nice looking for sure...but it was made to be shot and hunted with.
Do I have dings and other use marks on it...?
Yes indeed....but there are no abuse marks....Just signs of use and love.

I will hunt with this rifle in any weather....and for any game that can be hunted here in North America.
Andy

 

[RVTECH]

Yes indeed....but there are no abuse marks....Just signs of use and love.

Yep - respect and care - not abuse or misuse.

Heavy rain plus percussion and black powder not a good combo.

I too have hunted in snow & rain conditions with not only MLs but CF rifles as well and it's just a matter of conscientious, maintenance cleaning while hunting with a thorough, complete cleaning later at home.

I have one ML that has seen it all over 30 years and is still very nice with just minimal signs of use.

 

[flashpan]

Sorry to sound like whimp fellas. Last Feb it rained 6 inches in 5 strait days. Hunted each day in that rambo west side jungle...would not do it if I'd did not love it. Cleaned my rifle each night like a good boy. I still would not take a beautiful new $1,200 rifle in there. East side elk ... picnic.
Still looking for any 54 cal ML Elk hunters with bullet recommendations. Thanks

 

[RVTECH]

Last Feb it rained 6 inches in 5 strait days.

Well, no argument with this!

That is an incomprehensible amount and would make hunting very difficult - not to mention gun maintenance as well!

With regard to .54 cal bullets Hornady used to make the absolute finest bullet I have ever used - the Great Plains bullets. They were the most accurate, consistent and flattest shooting bullets I have ever used and dropped a couple deer with them.

I say used to make as they dropped the .54s & .58s and now only have .50s. - and i have a .54 and .58 !

 

[Andy54Hawken]

For the rainy days ( season )....
Sometimes I'll give my rifle a very light coat of bear grease or deer tallow....
Notice I said very light....this will keep rain at bay for a bit....Too much tallow or grease and you may end up losing your rifle , 'cause its too slippery...

And with that I will back on out of here...as I don't use those modern bullets and I don't like giving an opinion on something that I don't use much or have much experience with.
Andy

 

[flashpan]

And some folks put those little rubber balloon things over the muzzle? ...they look like miniature (blanks) We alway just use saran wrap and a rubber band ... then you wax around the cap...right?

 

[RVTECH]

And some folks put those little rubber balloon things over the muzzle?

Yep - finger cots.
A little chap stick or beeswax around the seated cap keeps it dry.

 

[EPS]

I don't know if you ever took the time to dig out a lead ball or a conical bullet after it was shot.
But I have at 25 yards into a sand pile.
It's a big piece of lead that has deformed into basically a Chinese throwing Star.
My 2 cents is go shoot your gun and with different balls and bullets and figure out witch one is more accurate out your gun.

 

[flashpan]

Good point...round balls I think are great fun to shoot, but the only thing I ever shot besides targets with them was jack rabbits along the Mexican border in NM. No recovery on those. I read mixed reviews on round balls on Elk....lot of folk use them with good results on deer though. I just don't believe a round ball will expand enough and cause enough damage on a 600 lb cow elk.
So I sent an e mail to Randy Wakeman RANDY WAKEMAN OUTDOORS. who has a fair amount of MZ experience. He was nice enough to reply same day with a recommendation for Parker Productions (Idaho) bullets. Then I spoke with Bob Parker for 20 minutes...boy did a get a lesson on MZ bullets. My rifle does have 1:48 twist so sabots and other bullets prob won't shoot well. I've decided to try/use the .54 580 gr Hydra-Con bullet. below. He claims these will expand to at least 3/4" from any angle. This one from an Idaho elk.
Recoil on this with 100+ grs powder will be nasty. As my father used to say .... "this damn rifle kills at both ends"
Hopefully I can send a hunting report/bullet review next Feb.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

I just don't believe a round ball will expand enough and cause enough damage on a 600 lb cow elk.

Last elk I got was with the rifle pictured below.
Its a J.Henry Flintlock Trade Rifle circa 1800....
Caliber is .58 load used was 85 grains , a .15 patch and a .570 round ball.
Elk was hit....the round ball passing through the heart and lungs....range was around 75 yards.
Elk went about 50 yards into the brush....and died.
The elk was around 600 pounds....its been a few years , don't remember the exact weight.

I also have gotten elk with my .54 caliber Hawken rifle using a round ball...
None have ever expressed a wish to have been killed with a different projectile.

Use what you want...but round ball will kill big game.
( Use Pure Lead , no mixtures )
Andy