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yeah just get the basic 34npr earmuffs or upgrade to the walker electronic in-ears, in my opinion. 23 is way too weak.23 db reduction. I would not use these without foam plugs personally. 160db - 23db = 137db, or barely hearing safe. Barely hearing safe is not nearly as comfortable as say 32 db reduction (which is about half as loud as these muffs). Also rifle caliber pistols or SBRs can be > than 160db.