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Trying to solve a problem with Red Dot and/or Aim point

Discussion in 'Rifle Discussion' started by BiggieRat, Apr 22, 2012.

  1. BiggieRat

    BiggieRat Portland OR New Member

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    What is your opinion of aimpoint and red dot sights and rifle scopes? Any practical experience? You input is appreciated.

    I am thinking of switching from my Prostaff Nikon to red dot system on my hunting rifles. The reason is the cross hires disappeared against nice antlered Black Tail. The deer appeared dark as it stood and walked in shadows with a bright back drop. I was in a saddle where deer cross and both sides are very steep. Although I could have made a double lung shot but then there is a chance it may run 50+ yards down hill in dense brush, trees and under growth. I thought I may get another chance, so rather than taking a chance of losing the deer or spend hours trying to find it I passed.

    For years I always tried for the double lung shots. But of the few animals I have shot the ones that went down on the spot had broken bones. On this trip, this location I wanted to brake bones, shoulder and spine.

    I am trying to solve the problem cross hires disappear against a dark target.

    Thanks in advance.

    --Bruce
     
  2. stmcelroy

    stmcelroy Madras, OR Well-Known Member

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    Get a better scope with an illuminated reticule.
     
  3. BiggieRat

    BiggieRat Portland OR New Member

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    short sweet and to the point, any recommendations?
     
  4. stmcelroy

    stmcelroy Madras, OR Well-Known Member

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    What caliber we talking about? Any chance you would need more power than 7?

    Checkout the Trijicon Accupoint line of scopes, they have triangle and cross hair with illuminated dot. Doesn't use any batteries, but a little on the spendy side.

    http://swfa.com/Trijicon-AccuPoint-Rifle-Scopes-C207.aspx
     
  5. ArBrnSnpr

    ArBrnSnpr PNW Active Member

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    Part of the issue with optics and washed out reticles is lense clarity and light accumulation so a better quality scope might solve your issue.

    I have a lot of experience with Nightforce and Leupold's tactical series, and I've carried an Aimpoint Comp M68 as well as the Trijicon ACOG, and depending on what you're mounting it on and what type of reticle you fancy, you might find great results with either of those. The Aimpoint is nice because it has varrying brightness settings which compensate for transitioning light phases, but it does require batteries (though they are said to be able to stay one for 5 years without being turned off and not die according to Aimpoint).

    The ACOG has two versions that the military uses, one with a fiberoptic tube that illuminates a chevron/stadia reticle pattern, and another that uses a Tritium dot on a reflex sight and an open stadia reticle spec'd to bracket human shoulders at various ranges (sort of a preset BDC for 5.56). Both are very nice and collect light very well and offer a very clear picture in low-light situations.

    Military optics are always worth considering simply because the majority of what we do with them is at night, and even though we have PVS-14s, and PEQ-15s we still operate without them at times in low-light conditions. mil-spec optics are rugged and can handle most anything you can throw at them. (theres an old video floating around the internet of a Leupold M3A 10x40 scope being used to hammer 10 penny nails into a 2x4).

    Maybe an Aimpoint M4, and flip mount 3x magnifier would be your best bet?
     
  6. bikejunkie

    bikejunkie Salem Well-Known Member

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    I would add that a lot of red dot type sights would be pretty unsuitable for hunting beyond 100yds or so, just because most lack magnification. I like the Vortex Strikefire I put on my .22- it's great for fast acquisition of targets like rabbits or nutria, but is basically worthless beyond around 100yds on my rifle- the dot is too big for accurate groups
     
  7. ArBrnSnpr

    ArBrnSnpr PNW Active Member

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    ^^ bikejunkie,
    They make the Aimpoint with a 2moa dot - the average soldier is expected to be able to hit an E-type (1/2 man-sized) silhoutte target at 300m consistently - it should be more than enough to work a deer at the same distance.

    Maybe the issues you're having at 100yds is coming from the caliber you're using. Tight groups from a .22 at 100yds is starting to ask a lot.
     
  8. bikejunkie

    bikejunkie Salem Well-Known Member

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    I'm comparing it against a Ruger 10/22 with a 3x9 telescopic sight on an identical target at the same distance (strikefire is on a Marlin 7000) For larger game like deer, or hunting people if the SHTF- I think a red dot would work well- for small critters they need to be in close.
     
  9. mr45auto

    mr45auto Oregon City Member

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    I run an aimpoint micro with a 3x magnifier on my AR15. Mine is the 4MOA model and that's about the group size I shoot at 100yds with it. The 2 MOA T1 with a magnifier would be fine on a hunting gun out to a couple hundred yards. You would likely be better served with something like the Leupold VX-R Patrol 3-9x40. The illuminated reticle is unlikely to wash out on a dark target and it's got decent glass. If you know where to look you can score one for under $500 which is alot less than an aimpoint and magnifier.
     
  10. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    Correct, BUT putting a humane killing shot on a game animal is MUCH smaller then a "E-type" target.

    2 MOA dot covers up 6" at 300 yards/meters. So that is basically your entire area of the "kill zone" on a deer. Taking a "pot" shot center of mass on a game animal is not how game in sporting situations should be done.
     
  11. ArBrnSnpr

    ArBrnSnpr PNW Active Member

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    That makes sense - I'm not a hunter so I didn't consider that aspect. In my line of work, tainted meat and humane kill shots are far less relivant.
     
  12. bikejunkie

    bikejunkie Salem Well-Known Member

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    I don't hunt myself- well not really- just a lot of ground squirrels and nutrias
     
  13. BiggieRat

    BiggieRat Portland OR New Member

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    Thank you for your replies. It appears a $89.00 scope, on sale, is still a 89 dollar scope even if it is a Nikon.
     
  14. DirectDrive

    DirectDrive Vancouver, WA Member

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    I would look at a a 1x-4x with the illumination option......best of both worlds.
    Vortex PST or one of the new Leupold Fire Dots.

    If those don't fit the budget look at something with a heavy post and cross hair that will show up in brush under low light.
     
  15. iamme

    iamme Lane County Well-Known Member

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    Look at the Bushnell 3200 series scopes. great scopes for the $$ and should work out great for your needs.
     
  16. Beta1759

    Beta1759 Beaverton Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Check out Leupold's VX-R line. Great glass, and a bright and clear "fire dot"
     
  17. andreys21

    andreys21 Milwaukie, OR Active Member

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    remember, you get what you pay for. I have a AimPoint T-1 4MOA zeroed on my AR and its a tack-driver for the intended ranges (0-100yds). If you want to hunt, then get an illuminated reticle. Leupold, AimPoint and many others make them but you have to pay more. IMHO, $89 scope is a waste of money.