Thinking with a Gun in Your Hand: Interview with John Hearne

[titsonritz]

Some good stuff from John Hearne

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[Jay Walk]

In my training the instructor was retired LEO and reiterated that the amount of stress you are under in a shooting is not something that you can comprehend unless you have been there.

 

[titsonritz]

In my training the instructor was retired LEO and reiterated that the amount of stress you are under in a shooting is not something that you can comprehend unless you have been there.

This is where Force-on-Force classes like the Weaponized Geometry a couple of thread below come into play.

 

[Cerberus Group]

In my training the instructor was retired LEO and reiterated that the amount of stress you are under in a shooting is not something that you can comprehend unless you have been there.

Everyone will have a wide variety of reactions during and after such an event.

Contrary to popular belief, some incidents won't cause an undue amount of stress...everyone reacts differently.

I was told that a person going through a shooting would experience certain things during and after.. guess I was an odd duck, didn't experience nearly any of the things they said a person would.

I've seen people that were top notch fall apart, and some that were questionable team members sail right on through...the mind reactions can be unpredictable.

It's kinda like Hollywood movie shootings, where 1 shot to the body and the person is instant DRT. Thus in a sense we're mindlessly taught that getting shot and it's game over, or you're blown backwards 10 feet.

Don't take shooting reactions teachings as gospel, if you don't experience any or all what has been written about the subject for many years, it's okay...you're fine...and don't let anyone tell you any different. It's not mandatory you're going to feel a certain way.

 

[RBB4ME]

Some good stuff from John Hearne

John Hearne's career in law enforcement is as a Park Ranger. Honest truth.

 

[titsonritz]

John Hearne's career in law enforcement is as a Park Ranger. Honest truth.

What is your point?

Scott Jedlinski, Todd Jarrett, Taran Butler and Gabe White all have zero LE or military back ground and yet they are still legit trainers that teach people, including LE and military, to be better shooters. Same for Todd Green R.I.P.

 

[RBB4ME]

What is your point?

Scott Jedlinski, Todd Jarrett, Taran Butler and Gabe White all have zero LE or military back ground and yet they are still legit trainers that teach LE or military to be better shooters.

Great question! None of the people mentioned state that they have 'many years of law enforcement experience'. Yet, that is what Mr. Hearne counts as experience and therefore as his credibility.

Don't know Jedlinski, Butler or White, but have met and laughed with Jarrett. Jarrett, and assume that the others mentioned have proven themselves in one field or another and therefore have credibility without announcing any 'LEO experience'.

Contast that with people who hide behind the 'law enforcement experience' cloak. Especially when they clearly use their experience we are all supposed to assume is hard-earned on the mean streets, while dealing with tough people on a daily basis. Only to find out that hidden behind the generic term 'law enforcement experience' is, in fact, that they are a Park Ranger.

Park Rangers serve a great purpose. And some of them are excellent shots while being first rate professionals in their field. But just be who you are. No need for blurring the facts about your true profession and experience in order to create a false sense of credibility in the firearms and tactical realm.

My question now: Does an instructor being a Park Ranger for nearly 30 years create a sense of credibility in the field of firearms and tactics training such that it would make you more interested in taking a firearms and tactics class from that person?

 

[Camelfilter]

Park Ranger? No "extra" credibility.

Game warden akin to Oregon State Police Fish & Game/ Alaska State Trooper fish & game etc, "could", but depends…

 

[titsonritz]

My question now: Does an instructor being a Park Ranger for nearly 30 years create a sense of credibility in the field of firearms and tactics training such that it would make you more interested in taking a firearms and tactics class from that person?

I guess that would depend on the Park Ranger. He has been an instructor for Tom Givens since 2001, that in itself speaks volumes.

A little more on his bona fides...
https://secureservercdn.net/45.40.1...-content/uploads/2020/11/Hearne_Vita_2020.pdf

 

[RBB4ME]

Who he works for

I guess that would depend on the Park Ranger. He has been an instructor for Tom Givens since 2001, that in itself speaks volumes.

A little more on his bona fides...
https://secureservercdn.net/45.40.1...-content/uploads/2020/11/Hearne_Vita_2020.pdf

Whenever anyone's credentials include another recognized instructor is not applying their own 'Law Enforcement experience'. Didn't hear him humble-brag about the Givens instructorship in his video. However, he leans heavily on his LEO experience. Reminder: That 's all I ever pointed out.

Me thinks some doth protest too much…

 

[Cerberus Group]

Throw Ayoob in that group as well...reserve police officer for a very small town in New Hampshire, and no experience with armed confrontations.

Have trained with him a few times, only because he was at our instructor's conference...otherwise was never high on my list.

Got way more from Todd Jarrett and Rob Leatham...many SF unit's have used both Jarrett and Leatham for training...that says alot.

 

[Stomper]

Throw Ayoob in that group as well...reserve police officer for a very small town in New Hampshire, and no experience with armed confrontations.

Have trained with him a few times, only because he was at our instructor's conference...otherwise was never high on my list.

Got way more from Todd Jarrett and Rob Leatham...many SF unit's have used both Jarrett and Leatham for training...that says alot.

Someone should tell Ayoob that he REALLY needs to just embrace the suck of male pattern baldness or buy a better hair-piece. It's almost all I stare at when watching his YT videos…. One time, it was even slightly twisted out of alignment.

 

[AK0perator47]

Didn't click on the video… probably won't… as far as background as law enforcement or park ranger or auxiliary police etc etc… I give people respect for the job that they did and take their advice as advice. It's not written in stone or everything fits a cookie cutter scenario, situation and/or reaction.

There's a reason why there are multiple auto manufacturers, firearms, homes, short people, tall people, different ethnicities etc etc etc… so truthfully if they are honest upfront and say," hey I spent x amount of time in military (this specific job), or law enforcement (this specific job), and by no means am I an expert; however, I learned this, then witnessed that, and I am therefore passing it on to you. Make your own judgment and take from it what you can."

I would listen to that person and take heed to what they offered. Force on force is a good way to get a basis to how people react. It's not a guarantee… why? Because in the sub cortex of the brain it knew in advance it was training. Does it discredit the force on force? Nope.

Another fallacy is muscle memory… no such thing… never was a thing… never will be… however, repetition is known to help work especially through the potential of a stressful situation… the downside of repetition is when it is done with bad habits or improperly performed… example: draw from holster… fire 2-3 rounds in target… stowaway firearm and look around for potential other threats…

REALLY? Think about this and hopefully you get the foolishness of it… if not… well hopefully someone that is better competent in realizing the situation and danger is around to end the threat. My post is by no means directed at anyone… just making a comment.

Btw @Cerberus Group maybe one day I can drag my carcass down to Goldendale and get some training

 

[Cerberus Group]

Btw @Cerberus Group maybe one day I can drag my carcass down to Goldendale and get some training

Would love to see your tender precious carcass on my range.

 

[RVTECH]

Would love to see your tender precious

So would Taran Butler....

 

[titsonritz]

Another fallacy is muscle memory… no such thing… never was a thing… never will be… however, repetition is known to help work especially through the potential of a stressful situation… the downside of repetition is when it is done with bad habits or improperly performed… example: draw from holster… fire 2-3 rounds in target… stowaway firearm and look around for potential other threats…

REALLY? Think about this and hopefully you get the foolishness of it… if not… well hopefully someone that is better competent in realizing the situation and danger is around to end the threat. My post is by no means directed at anyone… just making a comment.

Btw @Cerberus Group maybe one day I can drag my carcass down to Goldendale and get some training

You should go there, he covers all that stuff you mentioned.

 

[EPS]

John Hearne's career in law enforcement is as a Park Ranger. Honest truth.

Don't matter have you seen some of the people.
That park rangers have to deal with.

 

[RBB4ME]

Final word:

There are those who have the experience and those that created their experiences. I've met Mr. Hearne and was not impressed. Nor were some of the other instructors I've met who have attended his training blocks.

But, I was never a Park Ranger…perhaps there is something deeper that some of us just don't get.

 

[huzar]

Throw Ayoob in that group as well...reserve police officer for a very small town in New Hampshire, and no experience with armed confrontations.

Have trained with him a few times, only because he was at our instructor's conference...otherwise was never high on my list.

Got way more from Todd Jarrett and Rob Leatham...many SF unit's have used both Jarrett and Leatham for training...that says alot.

Mas Ayoob's shooting stuff from MAG-40 and MAG-80 is, speaking charitably, mostly considered legacy. There's limited utility from shooting the Weaver stance or from an combat crouch. This is coming from someone who shelled out the money and spent the vacation time to take both in the last couple of years. The weapon retention and disarm training in MAG-80 is reasonably useful, should the (very rare for a civilian) circumstance ever arise.

The legal stuff he presents (mostly in MAG-40) is, IMHO, some of the best education a civilian concealed carrier could and should seek out. To portray him as a "reserve police officer for a very small town in New Hampshire" seems a tad disingenuous, given that a large part of his impact has been as a nationally recognized court expert on what to consider from a legal/ethical/moral standpoint before shooting, rather than how to shoot. While I have little desire to go on to take MAG-120 or MAG-180, or bother to take the "here's how you pass the MAG-180 qual in 3000 rounds" class that is MAG-30, I'd seriously want to take his Deadly Force Instructor class.

As with everything else, context is everything. I'm not an SF operator on foreign soil. I don't have qualified immunity, or the deep pockets of a municipal or state liability policy backing me up in case I put a round into someone I shouldn't have. I live in King County, where civilian gun use is very much frowned upon and the DA would likely be incentivised politically to make an example out of me in even the most righteous shooting. My rules of engagement are different. I'm just a simple civilian. Not even a park ranger.

 

[Cerberus Group]

The point I was making about Ayoob, as @titsonritz pointed out, one doesn't need a high end resume to have good things to present.