The Ultimate Reduced Loading Thread

[arakboss]

What we're all dying to know -- is she HOT ?

She is a widow, my wife is not worried.

 

[arakboss]

I loaded up an CCI SRM primer #450 in a 9mm empty case no bullet and fired it off in my PT92. It went off easily and created a pretty good fireball. There was no muzzle flip at all.

As for the 9mm Lee Loader kit it needs a flaring tool or beveled bullets in my opinion. I am going to use a plated bullet installed in the case upside down to bell the case mouth a tad. Then hammer that bullet out with primer removal rod. I did one sample like that last night and it helped a lot but it will make for slowwwww loading. I have a few hours of hiking and brush whacking ahead of me this morning. Neighbor lady is coming over this afternoon for gorilla reloading lesson and pizza.

My cell signal is 4 out of 5 bars up here. The tower is on the mountain in between the trees.

 

[P7M13]

She is a widow, my wife is not worried.

How long you down there for? I have a 357 loader and it probably has the flare. I could mail it down to you today, it'd likely be there Monday.
I.E. presuming you have a convenient Post Office...

 

[arakboss]

How long you down there for? I have a 357 loader and it probably has the flare. I could mail it down to you today, it'd likely be there Monday.

Thanks I appreciate that but we will get by. I have everything that I need for the lesson.

 

[P7M13]

Thanks for the tips. I am planning on having to load one at a time. I forgot my scale so unless the neighbor has one that measures grains I will be stuck with Lee .5cc dipper for loads.

Didn't even know I had a "Lee Dipper Slide Rule".
Here you go.


Edit: PM'd my cell number if you need more looked up.

 

[osprey]

I have quite a bit of experience with larger cases and reduced loads but nothing as small as 9mm luger. I have done reduced loads for 458 socom, 45-70, 44 mag and 300 blackout. I approached them all the same way where I started at a published or well researched starting charge and worked down being careful all projectiles clear the barrel. I worked down until my intended velocity was reached and action still cycled in the case of semi autos. I sometimes had to switch powders with the semis to get them to cycle at these reduced velocities. Before I approached it this way I had a 400 gr bullet bullet out of a 458 socom trickle out the barrel at around 400 fps when the goal was 1000 fps. I am sure I almost stuck that one so I started working down instead after that.

 

[DizzyJ]

Just as an aside;
The 3.7gr bullseye charges were not enough to cycle the slide on a new 9mm handgun using plated 115gr RN.

Looks like it'll take a pretty decent increase for the new handgun. I'm guessing closer to 4.5 or so. We will see.

 

[arakboss]

I read this statement on another forum. Does anybody here disagree with it?

"Also, cast bullet manuals like Lyman's provide plenty of reduced load data that can often be used with jacketed bullets because, contrary to what most handloaders would guess, jacketed bullets normally produce less pressure with the same powder charge, because they seal the bore more completely. (The exception is very hard cast bullets, but even then jacketed bullets don't result in more pressure.)"


Source: https://www.24hourcampfire.com/reduced-rifle-loads/

 

[arakboss]

Here is vid from a guy who used IMR4227 in 223 loads and he claimed that they were pretty accurate.

 

[joken]

I am starting this thread in hopes of learning more about loading reduced loads from other reloaders.

With the economy of reloading costing more and the scarcity of components continuing to be a problem, more reloaders may benefit from playing around with reduced loads.

If you have favorite reduced load, technique, reduced load information source, advice, etc, please post it here.

As I experiment with reduced loads from titegroup in rifle cartridges to pistol cartridges with primer only, I will be posting here often with results and ideas.

I'll post this again for folks that may have not seen it. I shoot Blue Dot in my .223 Ruger American now that 17hmr is so expensive. I use a Nosler .35gr FBHP and 5 to 10 grains of the blue dot. I see that I already posted this some time ago.

223 & Blue Dot - 24hourcampfire

www.24hourcampfire.com

 

[DizzyJ]

I read this statement on another forum. Does anybody here disagree with it?

"Also, cast bullet manuals like Lyman's provide plenty of reduced load data that can often be used with jacketed bullets because, contrary to what most handloaders would guess, jacketed bullets normally produce less pressure with the same powder charge, because they seal the bore more completely. (The exception is very hard cast bullets, but even then jacketed bullets don't result in more pressure.)"


Source: https://www.24hourcampfire.com/reduced-rifle-loads/

Less pressure when sealing the bore completely? This seems counterintuitive.

My lead and plated Bullets feel like they have a softer recoil than my jacketed ones.

Not sure how pushing a jacketed bullet down the bore would create less pressure than a lead bullet? And yes I read his explanation.

 

[arakboss]

Less pressure when sealing the bore completely? This seems counterintuitive.

My lead and plated Bullets feel like they have a softer recoil than my jacketed ones.

Not sure how pushing a jacketed bullet down the bore would create less pressure than a lead bullet? And yes I read his explanation.

It was confusing to read but I got the impression that he feels gas is escaping past a jacketed bullet because it doesn't seal as tight as a soft cast bullet. Not sure if that is what he was getting at or if it is true. A jacketed bullet may have more friction than a cast bullet? If it does would that change pressure?

 

[arakboss]

I'll post this again for folks that may have not seen it. I shoot Blue Dot in my .223 Ruger American now that 17hmr is so expensive. I use a Nosler .35gr FBHP and 5 to 10 grains of the blue dot. I see that I already posted this some time ago.

223 & Blue Dot - 24hourcampfire

www.24hourcampfire.com

I plan on trying some Blue Dot loads one day but I don't have much Blue Dot or Red Dot on hand and neither of those have been easily available lately. I have a bunch of Ramshot Competition, Alliant E3, Titegroup and IMR4227 so I am going to see if I can get some of those to work with reduced cast and jacketed loads in the rifle cartridges.

 

[DizzyJ]

It was confusing to read but I got the impression that he feels gas is escaping past a jacketed bullet because it doesn't seal as tight as a soft cast bullet. Not sure if that is what he was getting at or if it is true. A jacketed bullet may have more friction than a cast bullet? If it does would that change pressure?

Resistance to movement increases pressure. This is why jamming a bullet into the lands creates higher pressure than allowing the bullet to get a running start.

 

[Lennie]

I read this statement on another forum. Does anybody here disagree with it?

"Also, cast bullet manuals like Lyman's provide plenty of reduced load data that can often be used with jacketed bullets because, contrary to what most handloaders would guess, jacketed bullets normally produce less pressure with the same powder charge, because they seal the bore more completely. (The exception is very hard cast bullets, but even then jacketed bullets don't result in more pressure.)"


Source: https://www.24hourcampfire.com/reduced-rifle-loads/

I wish we had more information as to why he would write this. From my experience, with matching bullet diameters and bearing surface, cast bullets have less pressure than jacketed bullets.

Both cast and jacketed bullets will seal the bore if the bullet diameter is correct.

There are way to many variables to make this blanket statement. Some of the variables, cast bullet bearing surface vs bearing surface of the jacketed bullet-most cast bullets have more bearing surface, are the cast bullets slightly larger in diameter, are bullets seated the same distance from the lands, style of cast bullet, lube or coating used on the cast bullet, crimping and I suspect there are additional variables.

 

[Lennie]

I'll post this again for folks that may have not seen it. I shoot Blue Dot in my .223 Ruger American now that 17hmr is so expensive. I use a Nosler .35gr FBHP and 5 to 10 grains of the blue dot. I see that I already posted this some time ago.

223 & Blue Dot - 24hourcampfire

www.24hourcampfire.com

Have you ever looked into picking up a rifle chambered in 17 Hornet. Lots of loads available using 10 to 12 grains of powder, very accurate round, much milder report than a 223, same flight trajectory as a 223 loaded at 3250 FPS with a 55 grain pill and very explosive on small game.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I read this statement on another forum. Does anybody here disagree with it?

"Also, cast bullet manuals like Lyman's provide plenty of reduced load data that can often be used with jacketed bullets because, contrary to what most handloaders would guess, jacketed bullets normally produce less pressure with the same powder charge, because they seal the bore more completely. (The exception is very hard cast bullets, but even then jacketed bullets don't result in more pressure.)"


Source: https://www.24hourcampfire.com/reduced-rifle-loads/

The opposite is true. No idea where that person got that notion.

 

[arakboss]

I wish we had more information as to why he would write this. From my experience, with matching bullet diameters and bearing surface, cast bullets have less pressure than jacketed bullets.

Both cast and jacketed bullets will seal the bore if the bullet diameter is correct.

There are way to many variables to make this blanket statement. Some of the variables, cast bullet bearing surface vs bearing surface of the jacketed bullet-most cast bullets have more bearing surface, are the cast bullets slightly larger in diameter, are bullets seated the same distance from the lands, style of cast bullet, lube or coating used on the cast bullet, crimping and I suspect there are additional variables.

All good questions. My main question is, can I generally run jacketed bullets with starting cast load data for the same weight bullets?

I found one piece of load data in the Lee 2nd edition book for 170gr bullets in the 30-30 cartridge. The Accurate 4064 load charge weights are the same for jacketed and cast bullets. Most of the other powders have lower charge weights for the cast bullet compared to jacketed bullets of the same weight.

The starting charge weight is 27gr for both and the max is 30gr for both. The pressure listed under max load is 39,900psi for the jacketed bullet and 28,600 psi for the cast bullet. That would make the argument that jacketed bullets make less pressure false.

But with the same 170gr weight bullets and Accurate 2015 powder the data looks like this

170gr jacketed start 25.7gr and max 28.5gr. The pressure at max is 40,423psi

170gr cast start 24.3gr and max 27gr. The pressure at max is 39446psi

So for 1.5 grains less powder the pressure is only about a 1000psi less? This doesn't seem to jive with the Accurate 4064 pressure results.

My thought is that running jacketed bullets with cast bullet data is going to be safe. Velocities will likely be lower than the velocities listed for the cast bullet but as long as I don't stick a bullet in the bore, it should allow for plenty of data to start from.

 

[arakboss]

Have you ever looked into picking up a rifle chambered in 17 Hornet. Lots of loads available using 10 to 12 grains of powder, very accurate round, much milder report than a 223, same flight trajectory as a 223 loaded at 3250 FPS with a 55 grain pill and very explosive on small game.

I haven't.

 

[joken]

Have you ever looked into picking up a rifle chambered in 17 Hornet. Lots of loads available using 10 to 12 grains of powder, very accurate round, much milder report than a 223, same flight trajectory as a 223 loaded at 3250 FPS with a 55 grain pill and very explosive on small game.

I have a Ruger 77 in K-Hornet and have a pile of hand loads for it too but we burn a lot of ammo shooting rats.