Sig P320 X Ten opinions

[K_Thieme]

Ok, I own a a P320 X Ten. I bought it brand new when they were introduced and I love it. I carry it while hunting and have not had any issues ever with it. I also previously owned a p320 in a 40 cal., and never had any issues.

I love shooting too.

However, with all the "issues" surrounding the uncomanded discharges, I have some concerns. I belive the gun is safe and with proper handling it should not discharge unless the trigger is pulled.

I would like to hear what or how others feel about the P320 and the controversy surrounding it. Specifically the X Ten.

I look forward to hearing and discussing others opinions and thoughts.

Kyle

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[metalhead68]

Ok, I own a a P320 X Ten. I bought it brand new when they were introduced and I love it. I carry it while hunting and have not had any issues ever with it. I also previously owned a p320 in a 40 cal., and never had any issues.

I love shooting too.

However, with all the "issues" surrounding the uncomanded discharges, I have some concerns. I belive the gun is safe and with proper handling it should not discharge unless the trigger is pulled.

I would like to hear what or how others feel about the P320 and the controversy surrounding it. Specifically the X Ten.

I look forward to hearing and discussing others opinions and thoughts.

Kyle

I wouldn't be concerned about all the hype, even the airman that was claimed to have been killed turned out to be a setup. There was another airman in the doorway caught on camera that supposedly shot the guy in question . It was not an uncommanded discharge

 

[TTSX]

The seeds of doubt have already been sown as evidenced by your question and you'll never really know if you can trust it.

 

[Nosferatu]

Does it have a manual safety?

 

[K_Thieme]

Does it have a manual safety?

Nope.

 

[TTSX]

Nope.

Kiss your nuts goodbye

 

[Koda]

Ive gone back and forth of my opinion following the subject and every time Ive thought it was unsafe that theory was proven wrong. Its been a few years now and still zero evidence its the guns issue, Id carry one if its what I owned. Ive shot them, including the Xten and they are awesome shooters.

 

[1775usmc]

It's Ron Cohen approved.

 

[magnummike]

I have owned every 10mm under the sun. Perhaps there may be nothing wrong with the P320 at all, I have yet to have seen any evidence that would have shown me otherwise, meaning, a P320 with visual evidence proving that it can discharge without a trigger pull, I just haven't seen anything yet, besides speculation and of videos of people claiming they have, on the contrary, I have seen many documents, including the MHP/FBI investigation, which had a conclusion of being able to replicate a trigger pull and scratch of the trigger guard, with the Officers set of keys. Could it be a lot of NDs? Maybe. My personal conclusion? Its just safe to not risk it. There are way better options. The Xten is a fine pistol, but when it came down to all the 10mm I have owned/shot, I will take my Springfield XDM Elite 3.8 on any day over my old Sig Xten. Way more versatile, plenty of aftermarket options, and Springfield Torture tested 10k rounds through one in a sitting and it still looked and functioned as if it was right off the assembly line. There is just way to many equal, or if not, better options, than to risk putting yourself, or your family in harms way. Only time will tell, but I just couldn't sit right with Carrying a huge "what if". I already have that fear with striker fired pistols, the p320 just amplified that.

 

[K_Thieme]

Ive gone back and forth of my opinion following the subject and every time Ive thought it was unsafe that theory was proven wrong. Its been a few years now and still zero evidence its the guns issue, Id carry one if its what I owned. Ive shot them, including the Xten and they are awesome shooters.

I feel the same way. I dont carry concealed with it. Just in the woods, loaded. I have for a few years and never had any issues. It is also one of my favorite shooters. I have a kydex holster that covers the trigger from Ivory Holsters.
There's just a lot noise and opions out there and hard to decifer what's real.

 

[Koda]

There's just a lot noise and opions out there and hard to decifer what's real.

There is and it has been confusing. Its been beat to death in this very forum this year, I don't own a 320 but some friends do so Ive been curious to follow along. There is definitely a level of personal discernment everyone has to make on their own, Ive concluded its not the gun but a WML holster problem (and I suspect most claims are negligent discharges being covered up blaming the gun). But the media has sensationalized the whole thing, it would suck to be a 320 owner right now with the stigma. Some facilities have even banned their use. Resale is poor, but I wouldnt sell it.... Your Xten is a perfect woods gun. A buddy carries one for hunting as well. Im a big 10mm fan myself.

 

[lucusloc]

The biggest problem with the P320 is Sig's PR department. This would have been a non-issue if they had kept their mouth shut and not blamed their customers. The whole controversy was the confluence of a perfect set of circumstances starting with the first drop-safe issue (which was a real issue with a perfectly understandable root cause), the winning of the military contract and the exploding popularity of the gun. This garnered it a lot of attention, and that amplified any reports of NDs that people were having.

And let us be clear, lot of guns (and lots of police) have NDs all the time, yet no one reports on them because no one cares. I pulled up a report in another thread that showed that over 3 years 3 large police departments had between 120 and 180 NDs (depending on how you want to coutnt) that got zero coverage in the news. And while I could not verify every model at issue, the report came out about 2 years before the P320 was released, so I know there were none of them in the report.

The main difference here is we know what causes most of these NDs; FOD in the trigger area of the holster, inattention when drawing or holstering the pistol, general poor handling skills etc. No one even questions it anymore, because they all boil down to some kind of user error. This was a huge issue in the 80s and 90s when Glock first came out, and while everyone then also wanted to blame the gun, it really was just a matter of getting people better trained. The NDs never fully went away, but our understanding of what caused them meant no one paid attention to them anymore.

The issue with the P320 is a huge number of those contracts came with all the gear, including big fat ol' lights and the holsters to contain them. These holsters had stonking great gaps around the trigger area that are a known ingress point of FOD. Why such holsters have not been labeled as inherently unsafe is beyond me, but we seem to be on the same learning curve that Glock was on over three decades ago.

If it were not for Sig's PR department screwing themselves over this would have been the extent of the conversation. But they had to inadvertently stir the pot and keep this issue in the public eye, and many influencers hungry for click were happy to feed into the issues, blaming the gun for "going off by itself" even when there was clear evidence that was not the case. They dug up every incidence of a P320 ND, brought back up the fixed drop-safe issues again, ignored NDs with other firearms (because they were a "known cause") and in general did everything to maintain the high-engagement controversy for as long as possible. There was enough crap flying around that it sowed the seeds of doubt even in trusted industry experts.

But the more we learn about all these individual incidents and of the controversy as a whole the less these claims hold any water. There still is no proof that a stock and unmolested P320 has ever just "gone off" on its own. Every video that purported to show proof of this was found to be. . . highly problematic when the details were examined. Everything from intentionally disabling internal safety features to manipulating the internals in the exact same way a trigger pull does to jamming things inside the trigger mechanism to induce failures.

Sure, some of these issues might be cause for other concerns; QC issues, reliability, or maintenance concerns, for example. But none of these "example guns" were ever turned over to Sig or a reputable third party for examination and validation of the findings. We simply do not know what the root cause of these purported failures was, and since they all seem to be 1-of-1 examples of the issue we may never actually know. I know I have attempted to replicate these issues with all 5 of my P320s with zero luck, so even if there were some QC issues that lead to some kind of failure (not even an AD, because every example of that took extra futzing with the trigger mechanism to induce a shot) the lack of transparency with their "methodology" means no one else can follow up with Sig on the potential issue.

All this means is that the P320 is one of the most examined and interrogated designs on the market today, and yet we still cannot reliably identify any issue with the mechanism itself that would lead to an unintentional discharge absent the negligent actuation of the trigger. The only reason this hinders confidence in the gun is because there is still a lot of views (and money) in driving this narrative. P320 "issue" videos and articles still drive tons of clicks. There is an entire meme sub-culture of people emotionally invested in hating the P320, and who will drive the narrative of the P320 "going off" at every opportunity. There are a lot of people who want to believe.

And when you couple that with Sig's other very real issues (of a business nature) it makes it easy to hate on Sig, and lots of people stop caring about the veracity of the safety claims, simply using them to pile on the hate for a hatable company. Couple that with the complexity of the issue and you have a perfect storm of fear and doubt, all of which is completely unwarranted. Hell, just look at how much I had to write to cover the nuances of the issue, then compare that with a meme of "Ha ha the P320 will blow your nuts off!" with zero supporting evidence or veracity. So even while much of the industry has moved on to the consensus that the P320 is perfectly safe there is still going to be a rather large subset of people that will refuse to accept that as the final answer to the controversy. They simply have too much invested in the alternative.

Where you fall on the issue is of course up to you, but the wight of evidence is firmly on the side of the P320 being safe, so long as you do not do known stupid things with it like stuff it in unsafe holsters. As for me the extreme level of scrutiny has bolstered my confidence in the gun. I know a metric crap-ton of ways that these guns will not go off on their own because it seems everyone has constantly tested those scenarios and found no issue. Keep the trigger well protected and it is as safe as any other striker-fired gun on the market.

 

[TTSX]

Tldr

 

[TJ82525]

Did read. Agreed on all points.

 

[Nosferatu]

The biggest problem with the P320 is Sig's PR department. This would have been a non-issue if they had kept their mouth shut and not blamed their customers. The whole controversy was the confluence of a perfect set of circumstances starting with the first drop-safe issue (which was a real issue with a perfectly understandable root cause), the winning of the military contract and the exploding popularity of the gun. This garnered it a lot of attention, and that amplified any reports of NDs that people were having.

And let us be clear, lot of guns (and lots of police) have NDs all the time, yet no one reports on them because no one cares. I pulled up a report in another thread that showed that over 3 years 3 large police departments had between 120 and 180 NDs (depending on how you want to coutnt) that got zero coverage in the news. And while I could not verify every model at issue, the report came out about 2 years before the P320 was released, so I know there were none of them in the report.

The main difference here is we know what causes most of these NDs; FOD in the trigger area of the holster, inattention when drawing or holstering the pistol, general poor handling skills etc. No one even questions it anymore, because they all boil down to some kind of user error. This was a huge issue in the 80s and 90s when Glock first came out, and while everyone then also wanted to blame the gun, it really was just a matter of getting people better trained. The NDs never fully went away, but our understanding of what caused them meant no one paid attention to them anymore.

The issue with the P320 is a huge number of those contracts came with all the gear, including big fat ol' lights and the holsters to contain them. These holsters had stonking great gaps around the trigger area that are a known ingress point of FOD. Why such holsters have not been labeled as inherently unsafe is beyond me, but we seem to be on the same learning curve that Glock was on over three decades ago.

If it were not for Sig's PR department screwing themselves over this would have been the extent of the conversation. But they had to inadvertently stir the pot and keep this issue in the public eye, and many influencers hungry for click were happy to feed into the issues, blaming the gun for "going off by itself" even when there was clear evidence that was not the case. They dug up every incidence of a P320 ND, brought back up the fixed drop-safe issues again, ignored NDs with other firearms (because they were a "known cause") and in general did everything to maintain the high-engagement controversy for as long as possible. There was enough crap flying around that it sowed the seeds of doubt even in trusted industry experts.

But the more we learn about all these individual incidents and of the controversy as a whole the less these claims hold any water. There still is no proof that a stock and unmolested P320 has ever just "gone off" on its own. Every video that purported to show proof of this was found to be. . . highly problematic when the details were examined. Everything from intentionally disabling internal safety features to manipulating the internals in the exact same way a trigger pull does to jamming things inside the trigger mechanism to induce failures.

Sure, some of these issues might be cause for other concerns; QC issues, reliability, or maintenance concerns, for example. But none of these "example guns" were ever turned over to Sig or a reputable third party for examination and validation of the findings. We simply do not know what the root cause of these purported failures was, and since they all seem to be 1-of-1 examples of the issue we may never actually know. I know I have attempted to replicate these issues with all 5 of my P320s with zero luck, so even if there were some QC issues that lead to some kind of failure (not even an AD, because every example of that took extra futzing with the trigger mechanism to induce a shot) the lack of transparency with their "methodology" means no one else can follow up with Sig on the potential issue.

All this means is that the P320 is one of the most examined and interrogated designs on the market today, and yet we still cannot reliably identify any issue with the mechanism itself that would lead to an unintentional discharge absent the negligent actuation of the trigger. The only reason this hinders confidence in the gun is because there is still a lot of views (and money) in driving this narrative. P320 "issue" videos and articles still drive tons of clicks. There is an entire meme sub-culture of people emotionally invested in hating the P320, and who will drive the narrative of the P320 "going off" at every opportunity. There are a lot of people who want to believe.

And when you couple that with Sig's other very real issues (of a business nature) it makes it easy to hate on Sig, and lots of people stop caring about the veracity of the safety claims, simply using them to pile on the hate for a hatable company. Couple that with the complexity of the issue and you have a perfect storm of fear and doubt, all of which is completely unwarranted. Hell, just look at how much I had to write to cover the nuances of the issue, then compare that with a meme of "Ha ha the P320 will blow your nuts off!" with zero supporting evidence or veracity. So even while much of the industry has moved on to the consensus that the P320 is perfectly safe there is still going to be a rather large subset of people that will refuse to accept that as the final answer to the controversy. They simply have too much invested in the alternative.

Where you fall on the issue is of course up to you, but the wight of evidence is firmly on the side of the P320 being safe, so long as you do not do known stupid things with it like stuff it in unsafe holsters. As for me the extreme level of scrutiny has bolstered my confidence in the gun. I know a metric crap-ton of ways that these guns will not go off on their own because it seems everyone has constantly tested those scenarios and found no issue. Keep the trigger well protected and it is as safe as any other striker-fired gun on the market.

TLDR: Tonya Harding carries a P320.

 

[TTSX]

TLDR: Tonya Harding carries a P320.

Who carries a what?

 

[Seattle_Sparta]

I've dedicated my P320 just for range use. Right or wrong, I lost confidence after the initial recall of the trigger, combined with the reports being made. Although I like the P320, I have other pistols that I have 100% confidence in and carry better.

 

[tabascoman79]

I've had a lot or 320s. Never an issue. I moved to the da/sa guns hard and got rid of my 320s.
With all the stuff going around I've recently purchased 4 more 320s in the last 3 months. The x series pistols don't seem to have the issue reported(which I thing are mostly user error, but that's another story).
I buy Leo trade in guns mostly.
Recently are a 320 x full in 9mm a 320 full 45acp and a x xcarry.
I have no worries with them. But I'll buy them cheap all day long.
I also bought the x ten when it came out. I've got well over 6k rounds in mine. Other than tight mag issues for the first few months. I've never had an issue and I carry it a lot.