SIG P-320, redux...

[TTSX]

Where did the Sig P320 touch you and how did it make you feel?

Touched on the wedding tackle. Feels bad man

 

[1775usmc]

Where did the Sig P320 touch you and how did it make you feel?

Well it used to ride right next to the dick and balls. I didn't give it the chance to break my heart before I passed it off to an unknowingly stranger.

You could say it used to have the best seat in the house. Haha.

The P320 X5 legion was my ride or die b!tch for almost a year.

Replaced by an ugly dumpling. But atleast she comes home every night, does what I say and I wake up alive the following day.

 

[Kruel J]

Well it used to ride right next to the dick and balls. I didn't give it the chance to break my heart before I passed it off to an unknowingly stranger.

You could say it used to have the best seat in the house. Haha.

The P320 X5 legion was my ride or die b!tch for almost a year.

I can vouch that he trash talks Sig but he's got first hand experience with the 320.

 

[BlackHoleSun]

The P320 is safe. Over 2.5 million have been sold, and it has been the standard issue firearm for the military since 2017, where are all the stories of service members shooting themselves.

If the P320 was anywhere near as unsafe as people claim, we would be hearing much more accounts proving so..

Calling the p320 unsafe is the equivalent of calling a pit bull a safe breed. statistics say otherwise.

 

[1775usmc]

I can vouch that he trash talks Sig but he's got first hand experience with the 320.

Yup. I wanted it to be great. Spent plenty of money on multiple P320s, mags, holsters, etc. the concept is super cool and they shot great. Took a huge loss selling everything I had. But at the end of the day there is no point keeping a gun that I don't trust.

 

[Kruel J]

Calling the p320 unsafe is the equivalent of calling a pit bull a safe breed. statistics say otherwise.

Pitbulls rarely bite, and it can many times be attributed to the owners when they do. But yes occasionally a pitty will just go off.

Kinda like the 320.

 

[Kruel J]

Yup. I wanted it to be great. Spent plenty of money on multiple P320s, mags, holsters, etc. the concept is super cool and they shot great. Took a huge loss selling everything I had. But at the end of the day there is no point keeping a gun that I don't trust.

I know you gave it a fair shake, I remember the texts LOL.

Anyone doubting this dude's experience with the 320 needs to know this.

 

[awags_86]

Not sure why you felt the need to point out the person who made the decision was a "diversity hire"...
I am very skeptical that you would have included that bit of information if the same director had made a ruling that you agreed with...

Monica Alexander – Global Consortium of Law Enforcement Training Executives

gclete.org

Sure seems like a DEI hire

 

[1775usmc]

I know you gave it a fair shake, I remember the texts LOL.

Anyone doubting this dude's experience with the 320 needs to know this.

People think I'm just sh!tting on it for no reason. I've seen the triggers go dead on 2 P320s personally. Never seen an "uncommanded discharge" but with what I've seen, drop failures plus everything in the news…..

Glad I got out when I did. Their value has dropped substantially. Haha.

 

[lucusloc]

Yup. I wanted it to be great. Spent plenty of money on multiple P320s, mags, holsters, etc. the concept is super cool and they shot great. Took a huge loss selling everything I had. But at the end of the day there is no point keeping a gun that I don't trust.

Pity you didn't spend time pulling the thing apart to the bones and really understanding the mechanism. I got a huge lot of them in a similar sale (including a Flux!), did enough due diligence to determine they were fine, then spent way too much time deep-diving them because of these threads and fully understand the design and function of each part.

After having pulled off every spring and jostling every part I can say I believe Sig when they say they don't go off without the trigger being pulled. And that is not the "they said it so I believe it" type, that is the "I did it my self" type. I have smacked the back with a mallet from every angle, tried to make a hair trigger and failed (and am not convinced a hair trigger is even possible to set in the current model) and have disabled half the internal safeties it comes with just to see what it does take to make it fail.

It took two tries, but this model is about as rock solid as they come, and I have seen zero factual, verifiable evidence to the contrary. Want me to change my mind? Show me the failure. I'll jump as Sig every bit as fast as the first time when there was a verifiable problem.

I am not telling anyone they have to like Sigs. If you don't then sell them off for cost and be rid of it like you did. I am happy to buy them at a discount.

Buuuuut if I am being perfectly honest is seems like there are a least some people who may be a tiny bit emotionally invested in a particular outcome because they did sell for cheap a bit too early. They might be at least as emotionally invested as the people who fawn over Sig (and even say their PR department is doing a stellar job with the issue) and take them at their word without validation and are simply hoping that the outcome swings the other way. . .

Meanwhile all us folks who just want facts, data and the truth to prevail are stuck between two very polarized and emotionally invested camps warring it out in front of the entire public, while actual reality gets buried in the meme wars and bubbleguming.

 

[1775usmc]

Pity you didn't spend time pulling the thing apart to the bones and really understanding the mechanism. I got a huge lot of them in a similar sale (including a Flux!), did enough due diligence to determine they were fine, then spent way too much time deep-diving them because of these threads and fully understand the design and function of each part.

After having pulled off every spring and jostling every part I can say I believe Sig when they say they don't go off without the trigger being pulled. And that is not the "they said it so I believe it" type, that is the "I did it my self" type. I have smacked the back with a mallet from every angle, tried to make a hair trigger and failed (and am not convinced a hair trigger is even possible to set in the current model) and have disabled half the internal safeties it comes with just to see what it does take to make it fail.

It took two tries, but this model is about as rock solid as they come, and I have seen zero factual, verifiable evidence to the contrary. Want me to change my mind? Show me the failure. I'll jump as Sig every bit as fast as the first time when there was a verifiable problem.

I am not telling anyone they have to like Sigs. If you don't then sell them off for cost and be rid of it like you did. I am happy to buy them at a discount.

Buuuuut if I am being perfectly honest is seems like there are a least some people who may be a tiny bit emotionally invested in a particular outcome because they did sell for cheap a bit too early. They might be at least as emotionally invested as the people who fawn over Sig (and even say their PR department is doing a stellar job with the issue) and take them at their word without validation and are simply hoping that the outcome swings the other way. . .

Meanwhile all us folks who just want facts, data and the truth to prevail are stuck between two very polarized and emotionally invested camps warring it out in front of the entire public, while actual reality gets buried in the meme wars and bubbleguming.

Still trying. It's cute. Your waisting your precious key strokes on someone who won't change and couldn't care less about your opinions on the platform. I bought them, used them, sold them. Will never buy them again. The "bones" don't matter when the gun don't work.

Type. Type. Type away.

Maybe I'm just dumb. Glocks are way simple. Less parts to fail. More confidence on my end. Plus I have a good personal track record with them. It's the same reason I don't own 1911s. Call me simple.

P320 is booty juice.

 

[lucusloc]

Still trying. It's cute. Your waisting your precious key strokes on someone who won't change and couldn't care less about your opinions on the platform. I bought them, used them, sold them. Will never buy them again. The "bones" don't matter when the gun don't work.

Type. Type. Type away.

Maybe I'm just dumb. Glocks are way simple. Less parts to fail. More confidence on my end. Plus I have a good personal track record with them. It's the same reason I don't own 1911s. Call me simple.

P320 is booty juice.

Not trying to convince you, not even writing for you. Writing for the peeps who follow along later. Truth is important, it only dies if no one fights for it.

 

[DirectDrive]

Not trying to convince you, not even writing for you. Writing for the peeps who follow along later. Truth is important, it only dies if no one fights for it.

The P320 story is chock full of lies, myths, anti-gunners, Youtube influencers and victims of same - with some turned anti-P320 jihadists for unknown reasons.
Pushback on all that crap is necessary.

 

[1775usmc]

Not trying to convince you, not even writing for you. Writing for the peeps who follow along later. Truth is important, it only dies if no one fights for it.

Such a patriot.

 

[lucusloc]

The P320 story is chock full of lies, myths, anti-gunners, Youtube influencers and victims of same - with some turned anti-P320 jihadists for unknown reasons.
Pushback on all that crap is necessary.

To be fair it would be way easier if
a. there was not the first failure, which while understandable was still very much a failure.
b. Sigs PR department was not so keen on fanning the flames at every opportunity.

The fact of the matter is their tepid PR response (not their actual response in fixing it ASAP) to the first incident rubbed a lot of people the wrong way (myself included) and sowed the seeds of doubt for any follow on incidents. Couple that with ignorance on how they fixed the original problem (it is effectively a ground up rebuild of the platform, with little parts compatibility) and you get people assuming that they did nothing but tweak a few things (not really fix it) and call it good. And never mind that the new "issues" are not even drops, but rather holster discharges from practically stationary guns. Sig's lack of transparency really set the public up for this perception.

If you are going to go for those types of PR tactics for heaven's sake don't sit on things for years then suddenly get all pissy about the misinformation out there and go full scorched earth long after the fact. That is just going to draw attention back to the issues - and you still don't have a good PR handle on how to message the fact that the P320 is effectively a new gun, not the old one with "simple fixes."

Sig, in effect, set up the whole situation to boil over this way. They handled the fix well enough (fast turn around on the redesign, full replacement with no cost to customers), but could not decide on a PR stance to take over it, and have been screwing up the messaging ever since. They are their own worst enemy, and the biggest ally of their haters.

 

[mhayd93]

Not trying to convince you, not even writing for you. Writing for the peeps who follow along later. Truth is important, it only dies if no one fights for it.

What this guy really wants is to express his very flawed opinion without being refuted or countered with objective facts contrary to his opinion. He is like a wrestler that has chosen to enter the arena, on the condition that only he may throw punches. I think I've mentioned it earlier in this thread, but it really is rooted in the same mentality that drives anti-2A people.

 

[1911Fanatic]

Anyone have more information on these 2 incidents? Looks like same holster/gun combo in the first Texas mishap. Not sure about the second.

View: https://youtu.be/b1rZFIfcK38?si=l6TUXq8ujphHdaEq

2016? That is before the "Voluntary Upgtade".

 

[1911Fanatic]

The P320 does have one party trick no one else has, and it makes it very attractive to large-scale adopters. That is the FCU, and how the frame/slide are completely decoupled from the functional internals. This means you can by one gun and configure it in about a million different ways with virtually no effort. Pull a pin, swap parts and you can go from everything from a sub-compact to a full fledged PDW. This makes the gun far more cost effective than even Glocks when it comes to diversified roles. The P320 can become virtually anything, all with the same gun on the same contract.

Now is this a party trick that most average gun owners will care about? Probably not. Most people will buy one gun, have one frame and slide and never swap anything. It will be functionally identical to every other gun out there. Why care about modularity if you will never use it?

But do not let this cloud your judgement on why the P320 is winning contracts; its unique features make it a standout for large contracts with virtually no peer in the market yet. You can bet that most companies that chase contracts are going to be trying to replicate this feature (while avoiding patents I am sure) as fast as they can. As soon as Glock, S&W, Berretta and all the rest can figureou out a viable FCU equivalent you can bet they will hype it as much as possible too.

The only question I have is can they develop something viable that does not run afoul of patents, or will we have to wait for these patens to expire before the rest of the industry follow suite (similar to what happend with the brownig action or the AR-15). Sig's FCU patent will expire in 2038, so we have some time yet to see how this sorts out.

Well, Ruger has already done it with the RXM. I am waiting for larger grip modules to come out before I snag one of those, though.

 

[1911Fanatic]

Well it's alien gear and they don't produce quality. Makes sense why they go hand in hand with the P320.

WML duty holsters will always have a bigger gap to accommodate the light. So either we train cops better and look over their gear/clothing through a microscope (which the Watch Commander or Patrol Supervisor should be doing before each shift) or take their lights away. Or just leave it as is and the issue will continue. The job/gear comes with risks. You can mitigate a lot of them but bad things will always find a way.

There are things that could definitely make the P320 safer. No one can deny that. A simple trigger safety would be huge. I don't understand why SIG doesn't implement some kind of safety on the trigger. It baffles me.

View attachment 2066787

I am going to get one for mine, before I dare carry it. But, if I do carry it, it's not gonna be with a light mounted, and for damn sure not gonna be in a plastic holster. Or, I may take it to a gun smith and have it set up with a manual safety. I'm kinda leaning toward the Glock trigger though.

 

[1911Fanatic]

I'd like to know how many people defending the 320 own AND carry one daily, and how many people attacking it have ever owned one or even shot it?

I own one, but don't carry it. If I ever should want to carry it, I will add the Glockish trigger and a manual safety. Both can be done easily. That would bring it up to having 5 different safety mechanisms. By that point, it will probably be the safest Stryker fired pistol in the world.