National SBR VS Pistol What do I really have

[tloschke]

I have a Springfield Saint Pistol with a 7.5" barrel and a CZ Scorpion with a 7" barrel. Both were purchased as such before the ATF designated them to be SBR's. I reluctantly Filled out the form as to avoid fines or confiscation and finally got back the approved paperwork from them. Now that that has been reversed as of now the serial numbers technically have them as SBR's, so if I want to sell them what is the process considering the are both sold today as pistols. There are braces on them both.

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[Will_White]

I have a Springfield Saint Pistol with a 7.5" barrel and a CZ Scorpion with a 7" barrel. Both were purchased as such before the ATF designated them to be SBR's. I reluctantly Filled out the form as to avoid fines or confiscation and finally got back the approved paperwork from them. Now that that has been reversed as of now the serial numbers technically have them as SBR's, so if I want to sell them what is the process considering the are both sold today as pistols. There are braces on them both.

View attachment 2072450 View attachment 2072451

If you put a stock on it, and you should because you can now, it's an SBR. With a brace since you remade it into a rifle it's still a rifle. If you want to transfer it as a non NFA item you have to get a 16"+ barrel and I think notify them you are removing it from the registry (not sure on this point) and they would have to pay the tax again to put a short-barrel on it.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

Right now it's an SBR, if you want to sell it as a pistol, send the ATF a letter notifying you want to remove it from the registry, but don't expect to reply back because almost no one ever gets one just keep a copy of that letter.
An SBR is not a rifle, it's an SBR so it does not fall under the "once a rifle always a rifle without a tax stamp" rule

 

[ilikegunspdx]

In terms of ATF it's not an sbr. If it is configured as an sbr, it's an sbr. Yours are not. If it's configured as a pistol, it's a pistol, irregardless of whether it has an sbr stamp or not.

You can sell both of them as non-NFA pistols today without notifying atf. ATF would like you to let them know it is no longer an sbr for their records but you are not required to do that.

 

[Will_White]

Right now it's an SBR, if you want to sell it as a pistol, send the ATF a letter notifying you want to remove it from the registry, but don't expect to reply back because almost no one ever gets one just keep a copy of that letter.
An SBR is not a rifle, it's an SBR so it does not fall under the "once a rifle always a rifle without a tax stamp" rule

An SBR has been remade into a Short Barreled Rifle, the Form 1 makes a new firearm with you as the manufacturer. Just taking off the stock doesn't make it not a rifle. It's not the same as going between pistol and rifle configurations on a pistol or bare lower.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

An SBR has been remade into a Short Barreled Rifle, the Form 1 makes a new firearm with you as the manufacturer. Just taking off the stock doesn't make it not a rifle. It's not the same as going between pistol and rifle configurations on a pistol or bare lower.

This is incorrect. @wired a little help please? It's also stated by atf in the brace rule training audio but it would take forever to dig that up (there were three training sessions and I can't recall if it was stated in one or all of them).

 

[tloschke]

If you put a stock on it, and you should because you can now, it's an SBR. With a brace since you remade it into a rifle it's still a rifle. If you want to transfer it as a non NFA item you have to get a 16"+ barrel and I think notify them you are removing it from the registry (not sure on this point) and they would have to pay the tax again to put a short-barrel on it.

Thanks for the answer

 

[Will_White]

This is incorrect. @wired a little help please? It's also stated by atf in the brace rule training audio but it would take forever to dig that up (there were three training sessions and I can't recall if it was stated in one or all of them).

You may be correct in this case, since they haven't put a stock on it yet and haven't made it into a rifle.

 

[tloschke]

If you put a stock on it, and you should because you can now, it's an SBR. With a brace since you remade it into a rifle it's still a rifle. If you want to transfer it as a non NFA item you have to get a 16"+ barrel and I think notify them you are removing it from the registry (not sure on this point) and they would have to pay the tax again to put a short-barrel on it.

Thanks for the info.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

You may be correct in this case, since they haven't put a stock on it yet and haven't made it into a rifle.

It doesn't matter if it previously had a stock on it. If it has a stock or vertical grip on it then it is configured as an sbr (and is a sbr according to ATF) and would have to be sold as a NFA item.

If those are removed it is no longer an sbr, it's configured as a pistol (it is a pistol according to ATF), and can be sold as a non-NFA pistol. Put the stock back on and it's an sbr and the owner (whether current or new) would have to have a stamp.

 

[tloschke]

Right now it's an SBR, if you want to sell it as a pistol, send the ATF a letter notifying you want to remove it from the registry, but don't expect to reply back because almost no one ever gets one just keep a copy of that letter.
An SBR is not a rifle, it's an SBR so it does not fall under the "once a rifle always a rifle without a tax stamp" rule

Thanks for the reply.

 

[tloschke]

It doesn't matter if it previously had a stock on it. If it's has a stock or vertical grip on it it is configured as an sbr (and is a sbr) and would have to be sold as such. If those are removed it is no longer an sbr, it's configured as pistol (it's a pistol). Put the stock back on and it's an sbr.

I like that answer.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

I like that answer.

And as a bonus, it actually turns out to be the correct answer!

 

[wired]

This is incorrect. @wired a little help please? It's also stated by atf in the brace rule training audio but it would take forever to dig that up (there were three training sessions and I can't recall if it was stated in one or all of them).

Taking the stock of makes it not a rifle. Sorry. Internet lore zero, court case one. Thompson center vs US. US lost. YOU, as a form 1 applicant are never a manufacturer unless you are, like me, a manufacturer. You dont manufacture the rifle. You are a maker.. Different rules.

Start with a pistol, make and SBR, turn it back into a pistol. No problem. You cannot do that with a gun that started out life as a rifle. Its always a rifle. Even I, as a manufacturer, cannot change that by remanufacturing .

 

[wired]

An SBR has been remade into a Short Barreled Rifle, the Form 1 makes a new firearm with you as the manufacturer. Just taking off the stock doesn't make it not a rifle. It's not the same as going between pistol and rifle configurations on a pistol or bare lower.

Not true. Not at all. You are not a manufacturer. You do not manufacture. You are a maker.

 

[1775usmc]

Either way someone's gunna be running around with a firearm that has your name engraved into the side of it. Haha.

I'd say keep them. Throw the goofy braces in the trash and add a stock. But that's just me.

 

[Camelfilter]

Either way someone's gunna be running around with a firearm that has your name engraved into the side of it. Haha.

I'd say keep them. Throw the goofy braces in the trash and add a stock. But that's just me.

The "free tax stamp" braced pistols --> short barrel rifles were not required to have a makers engraving.