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Remingon 700 SPS Tactical, a Ruger Scout (308), or STG 58 in 308?

Discussion in 'Rifle Discussion' started by OMNIBLENDER, Mar 21, 2012.

  1. OMNIBLENDER

    OMNIBLENDER Salt Lake City UT Metro Area (Eagle Mountain) New Member

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    This thread is about the use of a magazine with your 308 caliber hunting and defensive long distance weapon (rifle). I am thinking of 3 weapons here. The first one is a Remington 700 SPS Tactical, the second option a Ruger Scout also in 308, and the third, not a bolt action, but a semi auto USA version of the famous FL FN style weapon, a DS ARMS production STG 58 in 308 as well. The objective is to use any of these guns with a 10 round (or in the case of the STG a 20 round) magazine.

    Which weapon is best suited for my desired situation. I am not a hunter by trade nor by hobby. I have never shot a deer. I could and I almost did, but then felt bad for the creature and shot in the air so nobody else could get him... judge me now...I know. I am more into defensive tactical shooting. So I bought my first bolt action ever. I have other weapons too. So, now I own a Remington 700 SPS Tactical (20" BBL) in .308 (the AAC-SD model). This barrel is already threaded for a suppressor or alike kind of fun devices. This gun is meant to be a defensive weapon for distances between 200 to 800 yards.

    I am considering a few options. I want to build up the Remi to accept 10 round magazines. The problem is consideration of funds to be spent. And these are the questions I have to you, hoping that, you with your mostly much greater experience with this kind of a rifle, than myself, can help me decide which way to go. Few facts or options:

    The AICS or the MCREED version of a stock are both around $ 800 to $ 900 with 2 10-rounder magazines. Then I can sell my Remi SPS BDL stock (it's not bad) for about $50 to $70, and the hinged magazine and trigger guard for around the same. Or I chose from Midway from various options HS, PTR, Badger, etc... kits from around $ 300 to $ 400 bucks. If I can't install it myself I have to go to Mr. Smith, another $ 100 bucks.

    Questions:
    1. Do I scrap the project, sell the gun and buy a Ruger Scout in 308. Price is around $ 800 to $ 900 with 2 magazines. I read lots of good things about it?
    2. Do I even scrap the Ruger idea as well and just get the DS Arms STG 58 with the 21.5" Barrel for around $ 1200?
    3. Or is the Remi 700 worth it really, to hang on to it?
    4. If 3 is yes, then is possible to drop in a trigger guard kit for the AIC magazines in 308 (short action) quite easily? Or should I just get the AICS 1.5 stock (I am more attracted to that stock) and build up from there?
    5. Are there other Magazine fed bolt action guns (of course nothing like the Remi 770 please) already put together ready to shoot that are as accurate as the Remi 700 Tactical?
    6. Am I forgetting any other important questions?

    The STG 58 from DS Arms is a fine quality gun, in my opinion the best US-made parts gun (forget the CAI for $ 800). It is of course not meant to be as accurate as the Remi 700. But I shot this gun quite a bit some 10 years ago and really liked it. Accuracy wise, it gets the target down at 600 yards. But of course, it is a military weapon. It is a semi. And it already has the magazine option, obviously and it is a modestly good gun for the money.

    I am in it with the Remi 700 $ 550 NEW, plus the Nikon Scope Bushwacker (LOL) 3-9 x 40 with rings... another $ 300 (rounded up). At Midway (they have the lowest price offer) I can get the drop in kit with 2 10 round mags for $130 plus $ 170, plus shipping .... $ 330, or the badger for $ 400.. Let's say $ 400. That brings the gun with Harris-type bipod and sling to just little over 1,300$. Then I sell the hinged floorplate mag from the remi for $ 50 or so and I am back at $ 1250.

    Or, I could just pay about $ 900 with 2 10 round magazines for the AICS Stock 1.5, drop in my 850$ REmi 700 with scope, get the bipod and sling and be in it $ 1800. Then sell the stock and hinged mag for about $150 and be back at $ 1,650. Ouch! Of course, the STG 58 option gets me to the same $ 1,600 if I want my scope on it. DS ARMS has a dust cover - weaver style rail for $ 100. No bipod needed because the STG 58 has this built in one...really cool.

    Nope, I don't like DPMS' in my price range. I don't like the action. And the hybrid one with gas piston cost too much (for me). Darn thing if you have a budget. These are defensive weapons for husbands, and not their angry spouses that shoot (metaphorically speaking) ,their husbands with their newly acquired toys when going over budget. Right?

    So, please bring it on, the discussion. Educate me please! Are there other weapon choices to consider, such as the Savage perhaps? I want a magazine. I just can't see my self pushing my rounds into this little pocket space for 4 to 5 rounds. That is pathetic aka California Gun-Law Style. I could move to Canada with that weapon (nothing more than 5 rounds). I be better off to get a 1000 FPS Airgun in Canada. At least you can stick in more rounds there. But I think these Airguns are prohibited in Canada as well (or only with special permit). I could try to throw an anvil 600 yards.:bluelaugh: LOL. Anyway. That's it.

    thanks

    Thomas (by the way, I live in Utah. Please consider me still for the Northwest. I like the northwest. Qualified?)
     
  2. iamme

    iamme Lane County Well-Known Member

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    Pick up a Savage 10 SR model. They come threaded and if you look can also find one in HS stock or Factory stock, with bottom metal for AICS mags ready to run. Of your choices above I'd stick with the remington.
     
  3. coyote223

    coyote223 NW Oregon Stamp Collector,,,

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    I would have to recommend an airsoft gun, atleast until you can take firearm safety a bit more seriously. ;)
     
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  4. OMNIBLENDER

    OMNIBLENDER Salt Lake City UT Metro Area (Eagle Mountain) New Member

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    Coyote223, good point with the firearms safety issue, "shooting in the air". What goes up also comes down somewhere.... thanks for noticing that. I was young and dumb and what can I say. that's is what it was. I think that was even perhaps nearly 20 years ago. Today I would not do that anymore.

    By the way, there are airguns out there that are seriously powerful at 1500 feet per second at the muzzle. I have seen a 357... Anyway, don't want to talk about airguns.

    So, Coyote223, to the side of people's past flaws, which are all over the place, what would your recommendation be?
    Thanks
     
  5. OMNIBLENDER

    OMNIBLENDER Salt Lake City UT Metro Area (Eagle Mountain) New Member

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    iamme, thanks for that Savage 10SR model. I will check into that. The good thing is that the remi holds its value and can be traded easily. You are saying however, from my choices above you would stick with the remington. so you mean it is worth it to spend the 1600$. I guess I have to get the Savage, and then compare shooting them. I hear good things about the savage action but the furniture is not high quality. I have a lot to learn. thanks for the info.
     
  6. iamme

    iamme Lane County Well-Known Member

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    You can buy quality stocks for savage just as remington . you can swap barrels yourself, and if when time to sell you're willing to ship there's no night loss with savage either. the model 10 in an HS stock with bottom metal will run under $1K.
     
  7. OMNIBLENDER

    OMNIBLENDER Salt Lake City UT Metro Area (Eagle Mountain) New Member

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    Thanks for that info. I looking at this site right now: www.galleryofguns.com - Gun Genie - Davidson's most popular and powerful search engine to find and buy guns at galleryofguns.com

    I am comparing various MSRP's with rifles and their options. Savage arms offers lots of bolt rifles in 308 with detachable box magazine, mostly 5+1 or 4+1, not necessarily mentioning whether a 10 round mag is available or if the AI mag for example might fit. The price range all together is from $ 800 upwards to $1200. And that is MSRP, meaning that in reality you probably could get it at $100 to $200 off from that MSRP.

    It is a def advantage to be able to switch out barrels myself. What 10 round magazines would fit such a savage weapon model 10 in an HS Stock? Thanks for giving me something to think about..

    This is the law enforcement gun from Savage with a Mag:

    savage guns with mags.jpg

    By the way, Midway has this in stock now:

    midway short action conversion.jpg

    I also hear that Howa was pretty good and less pricy. This is what I have found:

    2binPeBrF_G57R2I8Tp.jpg

    midway short action conversion.jpg

    2binPeBrF_G57R2I8Tp.jpg

    savage guns with mags.jpg
     
  8. iamme

    iamme Lane County Well-Known Member

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    Look for a model 10FCP-SR (threaded, detachable AICS compatable mags but a meh stock). or 10FCP HS Precision (Not threaded and may either come with AICS compatable metal or Savage compatable metal). Options on threading barrel- sale off factory one and buy a nicer barrel already threaded or have factory barrel threaded. If you pick up a model that takes the Savage factory detachables- Accurate Mag makes replacement metal that is now used by the factory and will drop in. There probably are models out there already threaded in HS stock- but you decide if you want that, or go with the cheaper option and step up to McMillan, Manners or a Chassis system.
     
  9. OMNIBLENDER

    OMNIBLENDER Salt Lake City UT Metro Area (Eagle Mountain) New Member

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    iamme, look what I found, thanks to you. See below. I will probably buy the 10FCP and compare it to my remington 700. That is the best way. And then sell the one I like least. But the huge advantage with savage is already the ability to switch barrels myself. a big "PLUS". Thanks for that.

    I have to check into the Howa also.

    guns with box magazine in 308.jpg

    guns with box magazine in 308.jpg
     
  10. iamme

    iamme Lane County Well-Known Member

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    700 will most likely have a nicer more refined bolt throw. Triggers and stock will vary depending on whats on your 700.

    And seeing that price Keiths had the 10fpsr's (223 at least and 308 should be about the same) for just over $600, the bottom metal from Accurate-Mag.com ($140) and can also get a 10rd mag from them ($70). So if it ends up more than that I'd piece it together as you want :)
     
  11. Velzey

    Velzey Estacada, Oregon Gunsmith Gunsmith Bronze Vendor Bronze Supporter

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    I bought a DSA STG a couple years ago and love it! Best FAL I have ever owned....

    Fully adjustable gas system, feeds and functions everything.. and it quit accurate!!
     
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  12. OMNIBLENDER

    OMNIBLENDER Salt Lake City UT Metro Area (Eagle Mountain) New Member

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    UPDATE TO ALL:

    So, if its between the Remi 700 and Savage, I think would rather stick with the Remi. But I want to hear your ideas of pros and cons first (and then there is still the Ruger Scout, and /or such gun like the STG58 to consider, but more and more less, if I can stick with a more accurate bolt action).

    So, I looked at a ton of savages, such as > Savage 10 Precision Carbine w/ AccuTrigger AccuSto *Listing #:* > 968439760 *Price:* 709.00 (on Gunbroker.com), Accurate-Mag.com makes a kit for this savage with the AccuStock. They make also proprietary mags that will fit. Savage does NOT make 10 round mags. And I am not aware of any to fit this gun. This gun comes with a 4 round detachable box magazine.

    For about $750 to my door including the FFL transfer fee, plus over $300 for kit and 2 mags, I am at $1050. The barrel then could be easier changed by myself, but the mags are not AIC and I would prefer the AIC mags, and the cost of the Remi is total $950 with the AIC mags (2 10 rounders) installed in my regular Hogue stock. I realize the Accustock is better. But to me that is no diff. Midwayusa.com sells a PTG kit with 10 round AIC mags for total $300. I may have to pay a smith to help install, thus $100 more in the budget. But then I am done with the gun.

    All others cost more. Of course, I looked at these fantastic BC and Manner's stocks... and the AICS systems stocks.... wow, great stuff, add another $1,000, pretty much. Maybe later. I figure I could easily sell the parts off my gun...

    Anyway, these are my thoughts. To the point of not being able to change my remi barrel myself, how many times does one need to change his barrel? I think I am just going to buy eventually a second remi 700 tactical. People always say savage is cheaper and very accurate. Maybe true, but I just like the AIC mags better

    What are your thoughts about this? Thanks
     
  13. OMNIBLENDER

    OMNIBLENDER Salt Lake City UT Metro Area (Eagle Mountain) New Member

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    Want.... that is all I can say. If I had the money, I would buy a DSA STG... have seen them for around $1100 to $1200.
     
  14. iamme

    iamme Lane County Well-Known Member

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    Accurate mag are aics pattern. there are companies modifying factory mags to hold 10res as well.
     
  15. OMNIBLENDER

    OMNIBLENDER Salt Lake City UT Metro Area (Eagle Mountain) New Member

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    You are right. I read this wrong on accurate-mags.com at first.
     
  16. Velzey

    Velzey Estacada, Oregon Gunsmith Gunsmith Bronze Vendor Bronze Supporter

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    For several years I bought lesser quality FAL's and always had to mess with them. My DSA will shoot 1'' groups at 100 yards all day long. With the rear sight adjust up to 600 meters I can hit a 12" steel plate @ 600 meters with all twenty rounds! It's allot of fun!!!!!!!!
     
  17. OMNIBLENDER

    OMNIBLENDER Salt Lake City UT Metro Area (Eagle Mountain) New Member

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    About 12 years ago I had a CAI version of the STG 58. It was so badly built that one time it didn't fire out of the barrel but instead out of the magazine. Luckily nothing happened to me. With these surplus remanufactered weapons you need to be careful. DSA makes great guns. And they all come with new barrels. The only thing I don't like is the new hand guard and gas / piston cover. It's plastic. I think they may have run out of the originals... plastic is cheaper to produce... But I would have my eye on it.

    Just... the thing with accuracy, although I would not be ashamed of shooting MOA 1" groups, I would prefer the "SUB minute..." group. And the REMI has been reportedly shooting in with match ammo of 168gr "federals" <1/2 " groups at 100 yards. I know, with a scope on the FAL, you could achieve that too. But then you are out more money.

    The 21.5 inch barrel DSA 308 version is around $ 1150+ tax or shipping + ffl...bci, etc..., then $100 for a new weaver DSA made dustcover, then the $300 scope. arround 1500+$. What do you think about the DSA's versatile applications when it comes to sharpshooting sub MOA's?

    Thanks