Reaching out to non-gun people...

[Andy54Hawken]

So...
Here is my thought and questions...
Thought:
Find a forum or media source that would be willing to have a non-confrontational discussion of just what being a gun owner is all about , why we like to own and shoot firearms ...how the vast majority of firearm owners are not the threat or stereotype that is commonly shown, etc...
The media of choice , at least for me would be a face to face meeting where one could fully engage in conversation...and not have tone and nuances get lost in electronic communication or the hiding behind a keyboard , so one can say anything attitude...

While I would never claim to speak for all gun owners...I have talked about the above subjects and more , when showing my display of antique firearms.
I have found that when approached in a non-confrontational manner and given a chance to both speak and listen to what the other person is saying ....one can a times have a meaningful discussion.

One of the keys for this to work is to not engage with those who have already made their mind up...you will not gain anything from trying to get your point across to them.
The folks I want to reach are those "fence sitters" or those that want to know , but have only heard "one side of the story" or are unsure just what to make of it all....

Having talked to non-gun people and even anti-gun people many times before , I can only claim one time of "changing someone's mind " and having them become a gun owner and shooter...
But I have talked to many and have had them say : "I hadn't consider that before"...or words to that effect...

That said my goal is to get real information out there to non-gun folks about firearms and gun owners and have them think before making up their minds.
Not just having them hearing the same damn lies and misconceptions that surround firearms and gun owners , over and over...

I know that it is a difficult task to even think about undertaking...and the chances of it back firing is large and making a real difference is slim to none..
But I am frustrated at the lack of real knowledge and understanding of firearms and gun owners that is out and about.

My questions being :
Who would be good at this?
Where would one go to set this up?
Is it even worth pursuing?
Thank you for reading...
Andy

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[notazombie]

I applaud the sentiment. Sadly, I agree that it's unlikely that anti minds will be changed. You have a somewhat unique position. First, people generally trust and are willing to listen to teachers. Second, your guns aren't "scary". The real question is where to best target fence-sitters.
It's a really polarizing subject and misinformation, fueled by blind emotion, is the enemy.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Thank you for your input notazombie...
I wouldn't have the focus on me and my guns...although they would be mentioned...but more of just a
"You don't have to be scared of the gun owner"...and "guns aren't the evil murder machines that is commonly shown..."
Kinda talk...and display...
Andy

 

[Alexx1401]

I have converted many over the years but it was just by co workers and such. Like the idea Andy but off the top can't think of a way to do it large scale. Most people who engage in mass media seem to already have fairly set idea's. If they are anti it's like you said you can seldom get anywhere. I have always just done it through contacts. Anyone who gets to know me at all knows I shoot. Even if it's just from seeing me with a magazine reading. If they engage I engage. If they get confrontational it ends quickly as they have no facts. If they engage and actually seem to want to learn or "know something", I will invest time in them. Last one was a woman Wife crosses paths with at work now and then. She asked, had never held much less fired a gun. We took her to the range. When she shot I stood right there within arms reach of the gun. Couple times I had to block her movements but I did not scare her or intimidate. Started her with a couple .22's. She loved them. Handed her a large .380. She was having trouble hitting but was smiling. Finally handed her a 1911. Same thing, could not bullseye but was enjoying it enough to keep asking for more. Now Wife has taken her a couple other times with just the 2 of them. So far I don't know if she ever bought a gun of her own but she is not marching around waving signs to ban guns at least.

 

[edslhead]

I hunted with a guy last year that thought all military style rifles should be banned. Tried to explain to him how that would eventually take away his hunting rifles but I'm not sure I got through to him. There are gun owners out there who are "anti gun" themselves.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

I hunted with a guy last year that thought all military style rifles should be banned. Tried to explain to him how that would eventually take away his hunting rifles but I'm not sure I got through to him. There are gun owners out there who are "anti gun" themselves.

I "liked" this not 'cause of the outcome...but the fact that you did try to explain the other side of the story...
Andy

 

[Joe13]

I hunted with a guy last year that thought all military style rifles should be banned. Tried to explain to him how that would eventually take away his hunting rifles but I'm not sure I got through to him. There are gun owners out there who are "anti gun" themselves.

I run into these folks a lot unfortunately...


I've found that people who have an open mind for this stuff generally seek me out (friend of a friend or whatever) and and ask questions.


It has hardly ever worked out when I start the dialog.

 

[moose]

They talk about gun control being a political 'third rail'. And that is true, some politician says they are going to 'solve the gun' problem and the hair on people's neck immediately rises. Even here, it's quite plain that one person's idea of common sense is not shared by all or even most. Sometimes craziness is defined as simple 'individuality' and therefore protected under law and one can live on the edge of crazy with all the guns that you want. As long as they are not bothering anyone, who cares?

But then they bother people and we do care. So, it's not guns, it's people. Britain is banning pointy knives so it never really ends. How do you draw that line is a society such as ours? I know I'm ok but we need to find a way for an inclusive yet respectful society to determine if you are or not. That requires a complete paradigm shift.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

"The I own a gun but feel that you should only own the same guns as me " crowd is tough to talk to or reason with for sure...
It takes some thought and a willingness to listen if my idea were to have any affect...
Andy

 

[Member 34319]

To illustrate @AndyinEverson frustration for non gun owners lack of understanding here is a pretty eye opening video.

Most non gun owners have literally no clue. Which is exactly how and why the media and anti politics work.

My favorite part is when he talks about calibers. Everyone agreed that the 30-06 was way to dangerous, but the "tiny wimpy 223" should be allowed.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

They talk about gun control being a political 'third rail'. And that is true, some politician says they are going to 'solve the gun' problem and the hair on people's neck immediately rises. Even here, it's quite plain that one person's idea of common sense is not shared by all or even most. Sometimes craziness is defined as simple 'individuality' and therefore protected under law and one can live on the edge of crazy with all the guns that you want. As long as they are not bothering anyone, who cares?

But then they bother people and we do care. So, it's not guns, it's people. Britain is banning pointy knives so it never really ends. How do you draw that line is a society such as ours? I know I'm ok but we need to find a way for an inclusive yet respectful society to determine if you are or not. That requires a complete paradigm shift.

Thank you for your reply moose...
If I were to do this talk...I would do my best to keep politics out of the discussion and keep the focus on :
Law abiding gun owners are not to be feared...
Guns (of any type ) if handled safely are not dangerous...
Guns and gun owners have a long and important place in our nation's past and a just as important role in our nation's future...

This , at least , is how I have tailored the conversations when showing my antique gun collection...
And it seems to work well for now...
Andy

 

[Andy54Hawken]

To illustrate @AndyinEverson frustration for non gun owners lack of understanding here is a pretty eye opening video.

Most non gun owners have literally no clue. Which is exactly how and why the media and anti politics work.

My favorite part is when he talks about calibers. Everyone agreed that the 30-06 was way to dangerous, but the "tiny wimpy 223" should be allowed.

Thank you for posting that Reno911...
That is indeed a excellent example of the "common knowledge and wisdom" that I want to dispel...
Andy

 

[Member 34319]

I've talked with a lot of people in many different walks of life.

I'd say the most important thing about having a conversation with someone on the other side is to know their side.

Gun conversations turn quickly into gun arguments if you, the gun owner, do not know anything about their point of view.

Just as we like to make fun of them for knowing nothing, they look at us exactly the same, uneducated morons.

 

[kenboy]

Hey Andy,

Maybe you can start with my 32-year-old daughter that lives in Portland.

Graduated from University of Oregon and works for Nike.

She is the typical argumentative liberal that immediately in any firearms discussion says they should all go away.

Tough nut to crack......

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Thanks kenboy... ( I think... )
Well sure just give me the tough one right away...

To be serious...I really only want to talk to someone who is willing to listen as well as being heard...
In the words of Strother Martin...
"What we have here is failure to communicate...some men you just can't reach..."
Once you encounter someone like that ..there often is no talking or starting with them...
Andy

 

[No_Regerts]

I like to remind Fudds that hunting is a privilege granted by the state. Owning a firearm is a right and has nothing to do with hunting.

I also remind them that their 4th Amendment rights are mostly forfeited while they are hunting. Sometimes that causes a light to turn on.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Very good point No_Regerts...about rights versus privileges...
I have when discussing and displaying my antique gun collection talked of rights and privileges...but that can easily drift off in to political "debates"...So one needs to tread carefully...

Again if I were to give this talk...
As in the past my main focus would be:
Law abiding gun owners are not to be feared...
Guns of any type , if handled safely , are not dangerous...
Firearms and gun owners have a long and important part of our nation's past and a just as important role in our nation's future...
Andy

 

[notazombie]

I think a lot of the challenge will be to know your audience, and I feel 1 on 1 is ideal. If you're dealing with someone with a scientific or medical background, lean on the numbers and stats. Someone with a technical background might appreciate the "how it works" angle (that's what got me into guns). Soccer moms are a tough crowd. Maybe the good guy with a gun approach might work. Maybe not. Lots of emotion there. I don't relate well.
The one sure thing is that everyone is different and no single argument works on everybody. I think the consistent theme needs to be that guns alone are just things -- not killers. And most gun owners are regular, responsible folk just like them. Focus on common ground, which is a challenge since this can be such an us vs. them issue.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

The "no single argument works on everybody..." And "Focus on common ground" are both good examples of how to have a discussion...unfortunately those are often the first two things to get tossed aside in a conversation about firearms,,,
Andy

 

[Alexx1401]

I hunted with a guy last year that thought all military style rifles should be banned. Tried to explain to him how that would eventually take away his hunting rifles but I'm not sure I got through to him. There are gun owners out there who are "anti gun" themselves.

Sadly you see this a LOT. Gun owners think they can compromise to stop more laws. It will never work. All the left wants is all guns. They will never stop. Right now they are all over AR's again. If they get that they will just move on to the next "you don't need that" gun.