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questions about 30-06 and 7.62x54r SAPR

Discussion in 'Rifle Discussion' started by thewhitebuffalo83, Jul 19, 2012.

  1. thewhitebuffalo83

    thewhitebuffalo83 Gresham/Boring Well-Known Member

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    Alright guys,

    Here is a little background. With my little bit of free time last week, I spent a couple of hours looking for a 30-06 Semi-Automatic Precision Rifle. I also learned about PSL's and VEPR's in 7.62x54r and other various calibers. I am looking to stick with these two calibers as I already have them in my inventory and I am likely not going away from them. I have three mosins and about 1000 rounds for them and it is easy to come by much more if I want to, I have my 700 in 06 and about 1500 rounds for it. My father in-law also has a reloading set up and will hopefully be teaching me to reload in the fall. Within his possession he has maybe 25,000 to 50,000 30 caliber bullets and the components to reload at least 10,000 rounds of 06 and possibly much more I am trying to be conservative with my estimations of what he showed me a few months back, and he doesn't even have an 06 anymore.

    So, this isn't an immediate purchase I am trying to gather some more info. If I could pick one up somehow before November that would be great, but unlikely as I don't have the funds or the trading fodder at the moment to get me there.

    Here are my basic requirements. Primary purpose SHTF vehicle stopping SAPR in 30-06 or 7.62x54r not primary weapon more of a stationary semi portable weapon, weight is not a huge issue but it must be easy portable by one person with ammo in normal conditions, decent accuracy out to 4-600 yards (but primary use would be within say 200 yards) I am going to throw 2MOA out there but not a deal breaker as my skills barely let me hit 2 MOA with a bolt action at this point.. I would like the option of at least 10 round detachable box magazines, easy optics mounting ability, and easily upgraded and repaired. I want something I can work on with minimal gunsmith skills. Also needs to be a "modernish" fire arm that can handle the higher pressures of modern ammo. The higher capacity mags seem to be an issue in 06 not so much with the VEPR and PSL.

    Here is what I have found in 06. Civilian Browning BAR and the new Remington Semiautomatic that looks promising. On the used market I feel comfortable with the price points. However, I found a little blurb about high capacity magazines for the Browning but not enough to feel comfortable going that route and I have seen nothing about high capacity mags for the new Remington. Is there anything else I am missing and should be looking at?

    In the 54r caliber there is the PSL and the VEPR. In this caliber I am leaning towards the VEPR as I find they are on average more accurate than the PSL's. Also there is a question of 10 round plus mags for the VEPR. But, if I found the right deal on a good PSL, I probably would be just slightly less happy with the PSL over the VEPR. Now all of this I am saying about the VEPR vs. PSL is just what I info I have gleamed from the Internet research I have done. Are there any other options out there I am not thinking of or haven't been able to find yet? I have heard whispers of a Saiga in 54r caliber but I can't find much credibility in that, yet.

    So, with my "requirements" in mind is there something out there I am missing in either caliber that would be in the say sub $1000 range. I am a sucker for a good deal also, but it must be a quality good deal also. I am planning to stick with these two calibers with the exception that if I really can't find the right combo, I will consider a factory AR10 as a last resort for a SAPR.

    I am looking for any info and advice you guys may have for me on the topic. I want to say this is a great forum and I truly enjoy my time here and feel it is always well spent. Thank you so much for your help and advice this is a great community and I expect to spend long time enjoying it.

    I hope I have provided enough info to allow you guys to help me out.

    Thanks again.
     
  2. thewhitebuffalo83

    thewhitebuffalo83 Gresham/Boring Well-Known Member

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    I haven't had much time lately but I am still looking. I went into Keiths in Gresham last week and they showed me the Browning which I guess I was mistaken doesn't come with the fully detatchable box magazine. Suck. However, the guy started showing me the 308 semiautos and I asked aobut the Armalite AR10 and I really liked it, however I don't want to add another caliber in the collection. I am really wishing for something in 30-06 so I can stay with what I have and not add another complication to my preps.

    Anyone else have any other ideas?
     
  3. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    There are 10 rd mags for the Remington 750 it uses the same common mag as the Pump 760 7600 and earlier autos 740 and 7400 They are relitively cheap for an aftermarket hunting rifle mag,

    By all accounts the new Rem 750 is a very good rifle
     
  4. darkminstrel

    darkminstrel PDX Well-Known Member

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    The VEPR will beat the PSL right out of the box. Unless you want to put some time accurising the PSL which would probably just bring it up to the same price point anyhow. I have shot both, own a PSL.
     
  5. thewhitebuffalo83

    thewhitebuffalo83 Gresham/Boring Well-Known Member

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    I was kind of figuring that, based on the reviews I have seen. PSL are a little easier to come by though.

    I have seen a couple good reviews on the Remington 750 but nothing I can say is truly reliable yet. And from these couple I like what I hear. It sounds like for a semi auto this could be a sub MOA option. I wasn't really looking for that kind of accuracy but I would be complaining either. I found a Rock River Arms LAR-8 used for under $1200, I really was trying to stay away from the 308 win, but it just doesn't look like I am going to find what I am looking for in 06. I am in no real hurry just trying to find something I like. I also saw a new Armalite AR-10 for $1350, if I am remembering correctly. I wasn't really looking to spend this much but we will see. I was hoping to stay under $1000 used
     
  6. sdrake100

    sdrake100 Lake Oswego New Member

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    I would say the PSL's are getting harder to find than the VEPR. I would use the VEPR in 7.62x54R as the base platform.
     
  7. sneakboxer

    sneakboxer NW OR Active Member

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  8. Mohawk13

    Mohawk13 Home on The Range Active Member

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    As far as cost and caliber is concerned stick with the purpose built VEPR. Ammo is much cheaper and in stock at most ammo places. .30-06 is the next ball ammo to be in short supply(as is now 8MM Ball). Buying a fine rifle to bubba and "Enhance" is like paying a hooker to play the violin...Makes not alot of sense. Just My Honest Opinion...
     
  9. thewhitebuffalo83

    thewhitebuffalo83 Gresham/Boring Well-Known Member

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    That sounds awesome and I checked out there site it looks awesome, easy and doesn't bubblegum up the M1, Definitely a new thought. Keiths Sporting goods in Gresham has two for $650 last time I was in there.

    What about optics?
     
  10. ron

    ron Vancouver, Washington Silver Supporter Silver Supporter

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    I think the Garand is a great choice. Reliable powerful and accurate. The Garand can be reloaded via the en-bloc clip quickly. I have read that it can be fired at a faster rate than a
    M-14 with the detachable 20 round magazine. The M-1 hold there value being a collector. Thc CMP rifles that I have seen are high quality. To keep in practice and to learn to shoot with a sling from different positions most gun clubs in the area have John C. Garand matches. These matches are open to the public. I have shot these matches at Douglas Ridge, TCGC, Albany Rifle and Pistol, Clark Rifles and Loan Oaks Longveiw. We shoot these rifles with the iron sights out to 600 yards.
     
  11. trainsktg

    trainsktg Portland OR Well-Known Member

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    Since 99.9% of us here are neither 'operators', nor likely to be involved in last stands against zombie hoards, I would say each of the choices above would merit a thumbs up, depending on your preference in style.

    I know the VEPR is a superior weapon to the PSL, but it is just too dang ugly for my taste to even consider purchasing one. My PSL is capable of very good accuracy...my best group was a 7" 5-shot group at 330 yards using a not-too-precise 1pn34 NV scope and '86 Czech surplus LB, and that's good enough for me. Neither type requires special tools to do a complete field strip.

    The Garand is great, and I love mine, but there is a reason it was quickly cast aisde for a very similar rifle using a box magazine. Optics for the M1A are problematic. AFAIK there are none that return to zero once removed and some of the older ones lose zero during use. But...I have no personal experience with these. I only shoot mine open sights.

    Personally, I view my French MAS 49/56 to be superior batle rifle in every way to my Garand, PSL, even my HK91 and if it were chambered in 7.62 NATO (by the French, not by Century) instead of 7.5 French, it would be THE weapon I would choose to enter combat with. Simpler than an SKS, lighter and more accurate than any other .30 caliber military auto loader I own, a return to zero scope, robust as all out, and 100% reliable. As it is, despite its advantages, the oddball caliber knocks it out of contention for that use.

    Have you considered an AR-10?

    Personally, I'd see if you could play with all of the choices mentioned by the folks above and choose what feels best and right for you. That said, if I were to look at things in a purely analytical view (which I've already admitted to that I can't :) ), the VEPR would get my nod.

    Happy hunting.

    Keith
     
  12. PDXSparky

    PDXSparky Keizer / Hillsboro Well-Known Member

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    Yes he did, and decided against it because he wants to stay with 2 other caliber rounds.
     
  13. sdrake100

    sdrake100 Lake Oswego New Member

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    If you want to stick with 54R, go with the VEPR. It's ugly, yes, but it's a quality made firearm and you won't be disappointed. Lots of options are available to change the furniture out and even convert it to take PSL mags.