PSA Regarding Risk And Reason

[arakboss]

NWFA isn't a government or otherwise. 1st Amendment rights don't count on privately owned websites/forums.

Your comparison is insulting and your sarcasm and negativity towards NWFA continues to flow.

That's the last time I go to bat for a member for their own section.

I agree, that was an over reaction. NWFA members please accept my apologies.

 

[Knobgoblin]

I like fire , loud noises, excessive speed, and women with low standards.

You and me can hang out whenever.

 

[CLT65]

We've met in person a couple times, and you seem like a really good guy, so please don't take offense because none is intended:

I've been reloading, casting, tinkering and experimenting with guns and ammo for over three decades, and some of the stuff I've done has raised eyebrows, and gotten comments from the "You'll shoot your eye out!" squad. I've posted some "advanced techniques" here from time to time, and I'm sure some consider me a bit foolhardy. I never thought I'd be the one to say this to someone else, but some of your ideas make me really nervous.

Most of my tinkering and experimenting was back in the days before the internet, and I didn't even have any friends or mentors that reloaded. I learned mostly from old gun/reloading books, and tinkering. Believe it or not, I was always cautious, and I've never damaged a gun with my reloading and tinkering. I've done a lot of casting and reloading, a fair amount of case conversions, reloaded steel and aluminum cases, converted berdan cases to boxer. I've learned a LOT of what NOT to do. Putting a projectile in front of a blank cartridge is very dangerous territory. Blank powder is typically very fast, and tool blank powder can be fairly slow, but they're both specifically formulated to do exactly what they're designed to do. Using them in other ways is a shot in the dark, and inherently dangerous.

Anyhow, sorry to pile on; I really don't mean to. It's cool to tinker and experiment, but you've really got to be careful about it. Some things can go sideways really fast, and in a really bad way. Some of these Youtube videos that people post are just nuts. Some of the crazy things they do with guns seems really irresponsible to me. I guess they get lots of views though, probably for just that reason.

I just started digging through my stuff today. I know I have a small quantity of 44-40 brass that you can have if I can find it. I honestly think you'd be much happier loading up and shooting some rounds conventionally. My experience tinkering and experimenting tells me that your use of shortened 44 mag brass in a 44-40 chamber is very likely to end badly. I'd be glad to contribute some good brass if it would contribute to a better outcome with that particular project.

Let me know if you ever get over this way and want to meet up and shoot at the CVSC range.

 

[CLT65]

.

 

[arakboss]

We've met in person a couple times, and you seem like a really good guy, so please don't take offense because none is intended:

I've been reloading, casting, tinkering and experimenting with guns and ammo for over three decades, and some of the stuff I've done has raised eyebrows, and gotten comments from the "You'll shoot your eye out!" squad. I've posted some "advanced techniques" here from time to time, and I'm sure some consider me a bit foolhardy. I never thought I'd be the one to say this to someone else, but some of your ideas make me really nervous.

Most of my tinkering and experimenting was back in the days before the internet, and I didn't even have any friends or mentors that reloaded. I learned mostly from old gun/reloading books, and tinkering. Believe it or not, I was always cautious, and I've never damaged a gun with my reloading and tinkering. I've done a lot of casting and reloading, a fair amount of case conversions, reloaded steel and aluminum cases, converted berdan cases to boxer. I've learned a LOT of what NOT to do. Putting a projectile in front of a blank cartridge is very dangerous territory. Blank powder is typically very fast, and tool blank powder can be fairly slow, but they're both specifically formulated to do exactly what they're designed to do. Using them in other ways is a shot in the dark, and inherently dangerous.

Anyhow, sorry to pile on; I really don't mean to. It's cool to tinker and experiment, but you've really got to be careful about it. Some things can go sideways really fast, and in a really bad way. Some of these Youtube videos that people post are just nuts. Some of the crazy things they do with guns seems really irresponsible to me. I guess they get lots of views though, probably for just that reason.

I just started digging through my stuff today. I know I have a small quantity of 44-40 brass that you can have if I can find it. I honestly think you'd be much happier loading up and shooting some rounds conventionally. My experience tinkering and experimenting tells me that your use of shortened 44 mag brass in a 44-40 chamber is very likely to end badly. I'd be glad to contribute some good brass if it would contribute to a better outcome with that particular project.

Let me know if you ever get over this way and want to meet up and shoot at the CVSC range.

I appreciate the kind words and brass offer. As for the short 44mag case in 44-40 rifle. I would compare it to shooting 44 Russian cases in a 44 mag rifle which is generally considered a safe and acceptable practice. Blowback may be an issue but the case has a snug fit in the chamber and I don't expect there will be any problems with that. I still have to see if I can stuff a bullet in the case and get the cartridge to chamber. I will report back with results. Maybe I should have been born in different era when wildcatters were more active, lots of reloading experimenting going on and no seatbelts in cars. Today's world is a more coddled world. Safer yes, but that has come at the expense of adventure.

 

[CLT65]

I would compare it to shooting 44 Russian cases in a 44 mag rifle which is generally considered a safe and acceptable practice.

The one substantial difference is that the 44 Russian and 44 magnum are both straight wall cases of the same diameter. The 44-40 base is .014" larger than the 44 magnum, and a bottleneck to boot. I can see you're pretty set on trying it though. Please use extra caution for your eyes and hands, and let us know how it works.

 

[arakboss]

The one substantial difference is that the 44 Russian and 44 magnum are both straight wall cases of the same diameter. The 44-40 base is .014" larger than the 44 magnum, and a bottleneck to boot. I can see you're pretty set on trying it though. Please use extra caution for your eyes and hands, and let us know how it works.

I see your concern about the case diameter. I applied powder coat to the exterior of the 44mag so it now shares the same exterior diameter as the 44-40 case. That is one of the reasons for doing this test. I want to see if powder coat can reliably build up case dimensions. We know powder coat works for projectiles but I have not seen it done on cases yet. I will take extra precautions during the first firings.


44-40 case (once fired, not resized)





Powder coated 44mag case.





Edit: The short 44mag case should fire form to fit the chamber during the first firing. It only needs to expand .002 to fit the chamber the same as the once fired 44-40 case. If this process works I may be able to powder coat some 7.7 jap brass to better fit a type 99 I have that has an obscenely loose chamber. Even I get nervous firing that rifle given what once fired brass looks like coming out of the rifle. It was a $100 special from Cabelas but I don't want to give up on it.

 

[arakboss]

I agree, that was an over reaction. NWFA members please accept my apologies.

I am going to avoid this section of the forum for a few days and work on my sarcasm tendencies. I am going to figure out more constructive ways to deal with situations where my instincts would normally generate sarcasm.

I have been too much talk and not enough walk, so I will also focus some of my energies on working with projects instead of talking about them. I might make another range trip or two to shoot more conventional firearms.

 

[solv3nt]

Kentucky ballistics was using safety gear when that .50 nearly killed him. You're literally containing 30-60k psi or attempting to, in a small steel tube and the consequences of failing to do so can be disfiguring or even lethal. It is not "you" people are criticizing, it is your ideas that border on stupidity at times. You've been successful so far. You will not continue to enjoy that same success forever at the rate your ideas are increasing in absurdity and danger. It wouldn't surprise me if down the line you homemaker a pipe bomb bullpup, complete with fuse, and try to shoulder fire it

Just make sure to record it and share the videos. You know, for posterity.

 

[CLT65]

I see your concern about the case diameter. I applied powder coat to the exterior of the 44mag so it now shares the same exterior diameter as the 44-40 case. That is one of the reasons for doing this test. I want to see if powder coat can reliably build up case dimensions. We know powder coat works for projectiles but I have not seen it done on cases yet. I will take extra precautions during the first firings.


44-40 case (once fired, not resized)

View attachment 1247077



Powder coated 44mag case.


View attachment 1247078


Edit: The short 44mag case should fire form to fit the chamber during the first firing. It only needs to expand .002 to fit the chamber the same as the once fired 44-40 case. If this process works I may be able to powder coat some 7.7 jap brass to better fit a type 99 I have that has an obscenely loose chamber. Even I get nervous firing that rifle given what once fired brass looks like coming out of the rifle. It was a $100 special from Cabelas but I don't want to give up on it.

I see, I must have missed that thread. There is another angle that I'll throw out there, food for thought: one function of the brass case is to grip the chamber wall when the chamber pressure is highest. As the pressure subsides, it releases for extraction.

I've read that it's bad to shoot ammo that's oily or greasy, because the brass won't grip the chamber, causing excessive rearward thrust on the bolt, damaging the gun. I'm not an engineer or any kind of expert on that sort of thing, so I don't know if powder coating would be slick in the same way, but I suspect it would be. I'm not saying it's dangerous, because I don't know- just something to consider.

 

[Lilhigbee]

@arakboss when I read these quotes I immediately thought of this thread.

"So far as man stands for anything, and is productive or originative at all, his entire vital function may be said to have to deal with maybes. Not a victory is gained, not a deed of faithfulness or courage is done, except upon a maybe; not a service, not a sally of generosity, not a scientific exploration or experiment or textbook, that may not be a mistake. It is only by risking our persons from one hour to another that we live at all." --
William James

"When The Uncreative Tell The Creative What To Do, It Stops Being Art."​

- Tony Bennett​

 

[arakboss]

@arakboss when I read these quotes I immediately thought of this thread.

I am going to ask the nurse to read those quotes to me, if one of my maybes ever puts me in the hospital

 

[dangerranger60]

I like some of your experiments. And I try to focus on who has experience in doing that before, what their result was, etc...
Most of what you do has been tried before.
That's why I say Don't try blasting an obstruction out of your barrel. this has ended badly for many others before you.
If you ask a RO who has worked on busy ranges for any time they have all seen what happens.
When you asked about seating a bullet just ahead of a charged case, I pointed you to a group that has been successfully been doing this for over a century. It can be done safely.
But you have to be able to weigh the answers. Has it been done, Can it be done, can I make it do what I want?
That's what experimenting is all about. Good Luck DR

 

[arakboss]

I like some of your experiments. And I try to focus on who has experience in doing that before, what their result was, etc...
Most of what you do has been tried before.
That's why I say Don't try blasting an obstruction out of your barrel. this has ended badly for many others before you.
If you ask a RO who has worked on busy ranges for any time they have all seen what happens.
When you asked about seating a bullet just ahead of a charged case, I pointed you to a group that has been successfully been doing this for over a century. It can be done safely.
But you have to be able to weigh the answers. Has it been done, Can it be done, can I make it do what I want?
That's what experimenting is all about. Good Luck DR

I agree that I am not reinventing the wheel with most of my ideas. I think I am more safety conscious than people think (most of the time). I like my fingers, limbs and facial features and would rather not part with them too soon but I do like to take a little more risk than others sometimes. Variety isn't the only spice of life, I think taking risk also provides a little spice.