Price of ammunition in yUK.....

[tac]

Ahem.....

17 .50CAL WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP - SUCCESS FOR THE FCSA UK!

Late in June 2017 four members of the FCSA traveled to Raton. NM in the USA for the .50cal world championships.

Two of our members having great success. Scott Wylie taking a 4th Place in the Unlimited class score and a 3rd Place in the International match.

Vice president Mike Roberts had a most productive week, taking a World Title in the Semi Auto / Practical 2 gun match. A 4th in the Practical Match, 5th in the Semi Auto match, 5th in Light gun score, 4th in International and 5th in Iron man.

Chris Buckley and David Williams also had a great week and learnt an awful lot too.






Peons, eh?

Bollocks, I say.

tac

 

[tac]

Just a guess, but I bet that the peons there aren't allowed to have rifles in .50 BMG.

Hey, bud, got one of these, have ya?



Fortmeier .50cal belonging to Dave Williams of the UK team, fellow club member.

tac

 

[tac]

This is Prvi Partisan ammunition from the VERY large dealership up in Yorkshire - Henry Krank. To convert into USD, multiply by 1.45, to convert into DD, multiply by 7. This place is 120 miles North of me, and if I wanted to buy ammunition from them, that's how far I'd have to drive to do it. Thankfully, we have eight decent gun dealers within 20 miles of my front door, all of whom give us a 10% club discount on production of a membership card. My nearest dealer is a major Lapua, Hornady, Norma, RWS, Sellier & Bellot and GeCo factory ammunition dealer. They sell every brand of bullets except Berger. The main Berger dealer is in Rugby, around 65 miles West of me, but on our way to North Wales and Chester, so we always drop in there and top up on Vihtavuori powder and bullets for other people. I an only buy ammunition in calibres and amounts that is on my permit.

 

[KKG]

tac; I just happened to be in Raton NM during the Very First .50 Caliber Match. I was an Instructor at the NRA Whittington Center Adventure Camp that year. As the 1st Cav. Small Arms Inspector while "In Country" I had many chances to enjoy the M-2. I had mounted more than one Scope and more than one Starlight. So I know what a pleasure they are to shoot. And, YOU, Sir are a True Gentleman. Thanks for all you contribute.

 

[CLT65]

Very cool, tac! I always enjoy your posts too.

I may be mistaken, but I suspect that the "peons" comment might not have been intended in the disrespectful way it came across, at least I hope not.

My take is that gun control enthusiasts generally see average (non- connected, corporate, or wealthy) gun owners as "peons" who have no business owning weapons. No offense intended toward British gun owners, but it seems clear that the gun control crowd has had a much greater degree of success in England than in the U.S.. As strict as you all have it, I think U.S. gun owners often assume that it's worse than it really is over there. I for one appreciate your descriptions of how it actually works.

I feel bad for many of the restrictions you all have to put up with, but other than that I would love to visit England someday.

 

[4Freedom]

It's hard enough getting a pocket knife in the UK.. I can only imagination what one must go through to get ammunition for a *GASP* firearm. I was reviewing the London Metropolitan police raid. It almost looked like they were going around searching and arresting plumbers, contractors, mechanics, landscapers or just about anyone else who shops at Home Depot and carries some tools with him. Didn't realize how evil screwdrivers were in London.

 

[SIG34]

Dang... that's kick in the wallet

How much do suppressors or Silencers cost?? Easy to buy?

 

[tac]

Unlike the US, we don't have to pay tax on a moderator, just have it entered on your Firearms certificate. Prices are about comparable, bearing in mind that we have places where their use in compulsory - farmland night-shooting for instance. And yes, we can shoot 24/7, using any and all night-sight technology we want.

As for 'It's hard enough getting a pocket knife in the UK..' comment - this is total BS. So long as you are over 18, you can buy any kind of a knife, pocket or otherwise. Next time I'm in an outdoor gear store, I'll show you.

And this - 'My take is that gun control enthusiasts generally see average (non- connected, corporate, or wealthy) gun owners as "peons" who have no business owning weapons.'

There is ONE group of loon who are openly anti-gun, it consists of the ex-Member of Parliament Robert Marshall-Andrews, his wife and a secretary, plus a dog. They are titled 'The gun control network'. That's it.

TTTT, you guys over there have gotten the whole UK badly wrong. Sure, there are rich people here - but don't YOU have rich people in the USA? Sure, we have a couple of millionaires in our gun club, but then, we live in an affluent part of the country - the Duke of Gloucester's house is visible from the range, and he's the cousin of the Queen. Basically, if you can afford the annual club fee [our club is £140 for adults, £100 for vets], the once-every five year £80 for the Firearms certificate and a gun and ammunition [your choice here, we have THREE custom rifle builders within 25 miles of the club], you're good to go.

I'm just your average Joe, retired, with my state pension, my military pension and military disability pension - we have two cars, our own house that we've owned since I left the Army and my gratuity paid off the mortgage, and a reasonably good standard of living that enables me to shoot, play trains, run a sporty car for fun, and visit my family in Canada and friends in Oregon twice a year.

And let's be brutally honest, NO kind of shooting - of anything - here in Europe, is a poor man's sport. The guy who did so well over at Raton last June spends upwards of $25K per annum on HIS .50cal shooting...

So less of the down-trodden masses of peasants, groaning under the whips of landlords in their castles, if you please.

tac

 

[CLT65]

So less of the down-trodden masses of peasants, groaning under the whips of landlords in their castles, if you please.

I can't speak for the one who posted the peon comment, or anyone else for that matter, but I think we might be talking apples and oranges to some degree.

I understand you've probably taken abuse on gun forums from Americans who talk about how British peasants are subjects of the Crown, have no rights, etc., etc.. That's not where I was going at all.

My only point is that the gun control crowd in the U.S. is adamant that only police and military (and big corporations, and wealthy people who have the money and connections) should have access to semi-auto firearms and handguns, certainly not the common man like you or me ("lowly peons").

For the most part they're ok with us having simple hunting arms, target guns, and obsolete weapons, so long as they have strict controls and know who has what, where, why, when, and how. If there is no gun control movement in the U.K. any more, perhaps it's because they have already had complete success in their goals.

Personally I meant no disrespect towards you or your countrymen at all, really just some solidarity with the burdensome regulations that you all have to put up with. I know from your previous posts that you are not entirely satisfied with the level of regulations there. I also infer from your posts that you've been involved with guns and shooting for probably longer than I've been alive. I really mean no disrespect at all.

 

[tac]

To say that I'm 'not entirely satisfied' is the understatement of the century .

The gun control movement in the UK is the government, as each and every LEGALLY-owned firearm with a rifled barrel is registered to the owner. Shotguns are different, but there is still a very clear evidence trail, should it be required, to trace the seller and, by that means, the person to whom he sold the shotgun.

Here in UK ANYBODY over 18 with a clean record and an entry on the voting register AKA the electoral roll, can buy and own a shotgun that has a capacity of up to three rounds - and ANY number of them - there is no upper limit. Obviously, you have to have a NEED for one - clays, DTL, game-shooting et al. More than three rounds, you need a firearms certificate - the FAC. I've gone through what is needed to have one of these in great detail a while back, perhaps we might ask Joe to make it a sticky under the title of shooting in the yUK or similar.

As for how long I've been shooting, well, that's a matter of delving into the history books. I started when I was six, and I'm now seventy-two.

So far.

tac

 

[Mikej]

Tac , I think that he means "regular folk" when he refers to peons. Like you, me, people that might need to wait for payday to pay the sewer bill. Kinda like we'll be over here once a slew of new "gun safety" measures are pushed down our throats.

Tell us again how much in ends up costing in the UK to own each/a group of firearms?

 

[edslhead]

Have you priced a new PU over there lately?

 

[Provincial]

I will point out that most of Americans get their impression of the UK from shows they watch on Public Broadcasting System stations. Murder mysteries and Downton Abbey.

 

[Who The F R U]

Here's what I noticed about the Yuk


* Regular people are beat all to hell by the system in every way unimaginable with regulations.

* Price of anything ( $100US to fill up a Toyota seriously )

* Taxes ( If you fart the Crown want's VAT)

* You can do all kind's of stupid and get caught .As long as a weapon isn't involved they are gonna just fine the heck out of you and kick you down the road.

* English Snark's **Tac not included** American's are looked at as Tard's in general.

* Country people are the same there as here.

* The PC Police are out of control.

In general I think I know why we fought the crown , MONEY in the UK the Government want's it Period and they don't hide the fact.

 

[tac]

You SURE you don't live here, too?

tac

PS - tac isn't zackly 'English, 'cept by about 1/8th.

 

[tac]

Tac , I think that he means "regular folk" when he refers to peons. Like you, me, people that might need to wait for payday to pay the sewer bill. Kinda like we'll be over here once a slew of new "gun safety" measures are pushed down our throats.

Tell us again how much in ends up costing in the UK to own each/a group of firearms?

OK, basically, to own, say, a target rifle here in yUK, first of all you MUST be a full member of a gun club. As ALL gun clubs where live firearms are shot - not necessarily airguns only - they are Home Office authorised and inspected on a regular basis for compliance. This means that the range limitations regarding velocity and calibre are not being flaunted in any way. Because of the rather small physical size of the UK, and the fact that many of the ranges are VERY old, and what was open land is now occupied by housing, there are many ranges where they are limited to .22LR only, if they are outdoors and open to the sky.

I won't bore you with the range limitations that we have, but basically we can shoot anything up to .75cal/12g LEAD, and up to .600 jacketed, providing is does not exceed 7500 ft lbs m/e.

Having gotten that out of the way - the next thing is

1. the actual cost of membership - this differs with each club, of course, but overall, you can figure on around £100 - 150 PA, with reductions for family membership, members of the Armed Forces and being an old fart - over 65 [men and 60 for ladies], that is. Former members of the Armed Forces also get a deal - being a retired senior officer, I do - so it's £110 for me. Many of us do duty as NRA-qualified RCOs - for regular cartridge-firing guns [Part 1], black powder guns [1 and 2] and practical shotgun [Part 3, which included 1 and three but not 2]. Our club has more RCO-qualified members than any other club in the yUK - about 40%. The qualification lasts five years, then it must be renewed, unless, like a few of us, you are ex-military qualified and are therefore PQ'd. I did have to do the NRA BP course though at my own expense, like all the courses - £65.00 plus you have to go to the NRA National Shooting Centre at Bisley to do it.

2. Having successfully served your probie time [there are tests along the way] - six months - you then apply for a Firearms Certificate [FAC or just 'ticket'] to acquire and possess the firearms you have decided are for you and that you can shoot at the club range, or elsewhere that has similar facilities. The FAC issuing authority is the Chief Constable [lets's call him the County Sheriff]. In the county police HQ is a department called the Firearms and Explosives Licensing Department - ALL civilians, although most are either ex-police or military sometimes both, and have a good understanding of all aspects of shooting sports. After you have submitted your application form [that's worth a thread by itself] one of them will come and interview you, to check you out and to see your security arrangements, and to discuss the guns that you may have asked for - let's say you'd like a Western-style underlever in .357cal, a .22LR AR15 lookalike and a .44cal C&B revolver. No matter what you want, the cost is the same - £80.00, except that then you have to have -

3. Secure accommodation for the guns in the form of a gunsafe of the approved standard. As ALL gunsafes sold in UK are made to the British Standard, that's not a problem - so let's say £100.00 for a six rifle safe with a built-in ammunition safe inside it.

4. Ammunition - if you don't reload - I've already given you some idea. But CCI MiniMags - the most popular brand because of the HUGE numbers of black rifle lookalikes here - is about $12/C. My pal Jon goes though a 1000 in a morning, but he's crazy....

I have nineteen Section 1 [Rifled] firearms on my 'ticket'. Just one Section 1 [Rifled] gun? Costs the same. In submitting the form, you must stipulate how much ammunition of each type you think you would need to have at any one time. The F&ELD might just reduce this amount, might not,who knows what goes on in their heads? Remember that when you finally get your FAC, you are also authorised to reload for all the calibres for which you have firearms, but on for yourself.

Lemme know if there's anything else you'd like to know, and I'll do my bestest to resplone.

tac

PS - Most of the above also applies to game shooting/pest control and shotgunnning, but obviously there ARE some quite major differences between wombling around the countryside with a rifle, ditto with a shotgun, professional pest control and for-fun pest control. Oh, AND Practical shotgun.

 

[tac]

This is for Andy, and anybody else who shoots traditional stuff.

Here in yUK ALL modern-manufactured replicas of older-style firearms are either classed as shotguns [if smooth-bored and having a barrel over 24" long] or Section 1 [Rifled] firearms, if rifled of any length of barrel. To acquire and possess them you must have the requisite authorisation. There are NO exceptions to this LAW. You may have a smooth-bore gun up to 2" calibre - a punt-gun for instance, or a miniature cannon with a barrel over 24".

All smoothbores over 24" need a shotgun certificate - all those thousands of people in re-enactment groups fall under this category - think N-SSA and the Jamestown lot.

You can buy, if you are over 18, ANY antique firearm that does NOT shoot a commercially-available cartridge or is a muzzle-loader of ANY kind. No permit of any kind is required, since you cannot, legally, shoot it. So if I bought an early Trapdoor Springfield in .50-70 Govt, I could do so without any kind of permit, if I was over 18 y/o. However, I cannot buy a .45-70 version without full FAC authorisation, as ammunition is readily available. Same goes for the Colt SAA - you can buy the ammunition so it's classed as a prohibited firearm in mainland yUK - just like a G*ock.

However, if I wish to shoot a Section 58 firearm, either by making my own ammunition - not that hard, to be honest, except for some of the real doozies like a needle-fire Chassepot - or by casing it - then I would have to be a full member of a club and apply to have it on an FAC. A BP license is free and lasts forever, but you MUST have one to buy the stuff, as well as an approved wooden container, too.

I have two Canadian Sniders awaiting me doing just that....

tac

 

[revjen45]

1) I guessed wrong - not the 1st time, and likely not the last either.
2) re: "peons" - intended to indicate the common man, the non-connected, those who don't "know someone." I include myself in this category.
3) We don't watch Downton Abbey.

 

[Colts4me]

@tac
Does anyone over there legally own full auto guns?

 

[tac]

@tac
Does anyone over there legally own full auto guns?

No doubt a few Section 7 dealers do, but apart from that, it's a 'no'.

Lots of people illegally own them, though. Mainly those folks involved in the distribution of certain hallucinogenic medications.

tac