Preparing for Appleseed; advice/tips/suggestions?

[Heyjoe]

I've been wanting to take part in an appleseed event since I first heard of it, well i found one local to me scheduled for April so I have a little time to prepare. The goal for me is to obtain a rifleman patch.

One issue I'm having is choosing which rifle to take. At the top of this list presently is my wards western field model 47 but it's a bolt action, tube fed rifle and I'm not sure how well it would fit with the pace of Appleseed training.

Questions:
Would said rifle be a hindrance to the timely instruction, provided at Appleseed?

Are optics recommended for a person hoping to achieve rifleman status?

Any tips or suggestions from participants in said training?

Many thanks for your insight!

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[slimmer13]

I've been wanting to take part in an appleseed event since I first heard of it, well i found one local to me scheduled for April so I have a little time to prepare. The goal for me is to obtain a rifleman patch.

One issue I'm having is choosing which rifle to take. At the top of this list presently is my wards western field model 47 but it's a bolt action, tube fed rifle and I'm not sure how well it would fit with the pace of Appleseed training.

Questions:
Would said rifle be a hindrance to the timely instruction, provided at Appleseed?

Are optics recommended for a person hoping to achieve rifleman status?

Any tips or suggestions from participants in said training?

Many thanks for your insight!

If you are proficient in the manipulation of your bolt gun, you will have enough time to shoot all the stages of the AQT, and have a little more pride than the SA shooters

Optics help you see better, not shoot better, so that's up to you.

The only advice I can give is have an open mind and a teachable attitude. Oh, and have a good shooting mat, because you will be on it alot.

 

[RicInOR]

Take the rifle you wish to qualify with.

If you qualify with iron, I'll bet you would with an optic.

If you are not flexible, as in body, start practicing your prone positions now.

there is more info in the threads / forum for Project Appleseed
Project Appleseed

 

[Heyjoe]

Optics help you see better, not shoot better, so that's up to you.

Understood, what ranges are involved?

Take the rifle you wish to qualify with.

If you qualify with iron, I'll bet you would with an optic.

If you are not flexible, as in body, start practicing your prone positions now.

there is more info in the threads / forum for Project Appleseed
Project Appleseed

Much obliged!

 

[slimmer13]

25 yds, shooting targets down to maybe 2 inches wide x 1 inch tall

 

[RicInOR]

Before I went, I bought some appleseed targets and
Refine your skills with these downloadable targets

and set up at my home club on a standard (for them) bench / target.
While not exactly the same as PA, I was familiar with the targets when I went.

It was a fantastic weekend, I predict you'll have a great time, and if you are not careful - learn something.

Here is a test answer: 4/19/75
what's the question?

 

[Heyjoe]

Before I went, I bought some appleseed targets and
Refine your skills with these downloadable targets

and set up at my home club on a standard (for them) bench / target.
While not exactly the same as PA, I was familiar with the targets when I went.

It was a fantastic weekend, I predict you'll have a great time, and if you are not careful - learn something.

Here is a test answer: 4/19/75
what's the question?

Lexington and Concord, the beginning of the American revolutionary war, correct?

 

[ron]

A proper shooting sling is essential. GI canvas slings work good and are easily
adjustable. Good reproductions are available. Solid attachment point for the sling on the
rifle. Having a coat that is not slick like a rain coat. Carhartt type coat will
work. Leather padded shooting glove. I have seen some use welding gloves.
Know your rifle and the sight adjustments. What type of ammo your rifle likes.
Shooting mats are sure nice. Good luck have fun.

 

[Ironbar]

I've been wanting to take part in an appleseed event since I first heard of it, well i found one local to me scheduled for April so I have a little time to prepare. The goal for me is to obtain a rifleman patch.

One issue I'm having is choosing which rifle to take. At the top of this list presently is my wards western field model 47 but it's a bolt action, tube fed rifle and I'm not sure how well it would fit with the pace of Appleseed training.

Questions:
Would said rifle be a hindrance to the timely instruction, provided at Appleseed?

Are optics recommended for a person hoping to achieve rifleman status?

Any tips or suggestions from participants in said training?

Many thanks for your insight!

Hey Joe,

I'm an Orange Hat instructor for Appleseed (not as frequently as I'd like), and here's some answers that will hopefully make you first Appleseed a pleasurable experience.

Out of all the Appleseed weekends I've done, both as a shooter and an instructor, I've seen only ONE person get Rifleman score with a bolt gun. It happens. However, that one person I witnessed do it was a whiz with their gun, and could manipulate the bolt with lightning speed. If this is not you, then yes your bolt action .22 will be a hindrance to the pace of Appleseed training. The vast majority of participants in the class use some variant of the Ruger 10/22, or Marlin Model 60.

My eyesight has degraded to the point where I cannot shoot effectively with iron sights. Nope, cannot do it. Not even at 25 meters. If this is you, then yes, optics will likely help you.

The following are my tips and suggestions.

1) PLEASE FOR THE SWEET LOVE OF GOD make sure that your rifle is dead-nuts zeroed in to 25 meters before you come to an event. You wouldn't believe the amount of frustration that students exhibit when their rifle isn't shooting straight because they didn't zero their rifles. If your rifle is 100% zeroed in before you come, and you KNOW it's zeroed in, then if you're not landing shots on target, it's YOU not your rifle. That being the case, we can teach you the things you need to do to get those rounds to hit exactly where you want. But if your rifle is off target AND you're making other errors, then we're going to have a lot harder time of it all around and you're going to get frustrated. Time IS spent on day one getting rifles zeroed, but this isn't done off a bench rest, and it's sketchy at best IN MY OPINION. I am not knocking Appleseed training in this aspect.

2) Make sure that every nut and screw and bolt on your rifle is tightened down well. I can't tell you how many times we've run across a student starting out well, then shooting worse and worse, only to find out that their screws on the scope mount, or even the main set screw on their Ruger has come loose. Loctite is your friend.

3) Appleseed is physically demanding. For two days, you're going to be standing up, sitting down, getting into prone position, and doing it over and over and over again. If you're not used to this, you're going to be wiped out by the end of day one. Do a search on Google for proper prone position for Appleseed and start doing it NOW! Keep doing it every day before the event.

4) While we're on the subject pf physical demands, let's talk about that prone position for a minute. Get that support side elbow UNDER the rifle. Not below it, not off to the side a little, UNDER it! You will learn why at Appleseed, but for Pete's sake get that elbow where it's supposed to be!

5) Bring Gatorade. Even on a colder day, bring Gatorade.

6) Finally, at Appleseed we talk a LOT about NPOA, or Natural Point of Aim. NPOA is where a RELAXED body will place the shot. Not enough students truly grasp this concept in spite of us teaching it all weekend long. This is one area of Appleseed training that I would actually like to see expanded upon and really hammered home to the students as I personally feel it's the single most critical aspect of whether someone makes Rifleman or not. Truly embracing NPOA is what finally made me a Rifleman (after FOUR tries), and what helped me to achieve my highest score ever last year- 245. Try this: Get into prone position and put your sights on the target as you normally would. When you're finally ready to squeeze that trigger, close your eyes instead, exhale, and let every muscle in your body go completely slack- I mean really relax. Then open your eyes and look where your sights are now. Are your sights still on target? Not many people can say yes to that question. This is where NPOA comes in to play. At Appleseed we'll teach you how to do that exercise so that when you open your eyes, your sights will still be right on target. If you get good enough at it, you'd even be able to take ten shots in Rifleman's cadence with your eyes closed, and still put every shot within 4MOA.

Hope this all helps, and if you have any more questions then please feel free to post them here or just PM me!

 

[Lightborne]

I've seen only ONE person get Rifleman score with a bolt gun. It happens. However, that one person I witnessed do it was a whiz with their gun, and could manipulate the bolt with lightning speed.

Rifleman with bolt action checking in. The short timed strings were definitely difficult, but not impossible. Very much felt rushed for time though.


I'd definitely mirror what Ironbar says though. Absolutely solid advice. Particularly when it comes to practicing being in the prone position. It's not the most comfortable to be in all day, especially if you're not semi used to it.

Ibuprofen is going to be your friend

 

[Gl0ckGirl]

I would agree with what @Ironbar said. I am also a Project Appleseed Instructor in training and the events I have been to, we have shooters start with bolt actions, learn to shoot well with them and get frustrated when it comes to the Qualification test to earn Rifleman. I would recommend maybe not doing your first Appleseed with a bolt action. Either way have fun! I went to my first event as an excuse to buy a rifle and here I am... volunteered to help instruct have met lots of great people and made some friends along the way! Please let's us know how you do!

 

[orygun]

I've only done the Known Distance Appleseeds and certainly want to do more, just have a hard time fitting it in "the schedule".
I'd say what's most important to the long day(s) of shooting, making sure you're hydrated before the event and as well rested as possible. Keeping focus, in all ways, is kind of tough as the day goes on.
Other than that, the heck with the masses, shoot with a bolt gun. Loading a blind mag bolt gun will slow you down, but if all hits are center, you won't need all 40 rounds to hit Rifleman. I came close, but always ran out of steam before I could get the score to earn the patch.

 

[Goosebrown]

For me the thing that was hardest was inner thighs.

Yep.

There's a lot of transitions between positions and I don't work out. Getting a good stretch and maybe some time on an elliptical machine for a week or two first might help.

That's just me.

If you aren't up for the transitions just mention it to them. They're good folks.

 

[Joe Link]

Congrats on doing your first Appleseed! I attend whenever my schedule allows, if for no other reason than to work on practicing/reinforcing the skills they teach. I'm planning on doing my third June 22nd-23rd. You won't find cheaper training for $60/weekend.

Most everything has been covered here already but I want to reiterate the use of ibuprofen and a 10/22. The first time I shot it with my AR15 and iron sights. Not only could I not see the targets very well, my gun malfunctioned because I didn't know how to operate it, it annoyed others trying to grasp what we were being taught (muzzle blast), and I spent a bunch of money on ammo. I purchased and scoped a 10/22 for my second Appleseed and it was a far better experience (and I got my badge!).

 

[ron]

Highpower position shooting matches schedule. https://www.ossa.org/uploads/2/5/3/2/25326702/2019_highpower_schedule.pdf
"Across the Course" 200-300-600 yards Standing, sitting and prone. Challenging
600 yard slow fire prone @ DRRC

 

[Zathras]

Congratulations on your decision to go to Appleseed. Good advice from others, and you should listen to the instructors, but I'd add a couple things in case my experience helps you any...

I've only been to one, and it was in April. Hopefully, they'll do the 13-shot volley tribute to the Revolution (19 Apr 1775), so bring a bigger centerfire if you want to participate. I used my Mini-14 in standing position, as it seemed appropriate, and shot brass 10 lanes over . It was a highlight of my trip. One instructor brought her M1A. If you enjoy history, that's an added bonus of the Appleseed event that I don't think enough people appreciate.

It rained on us, hard, all day the first day. A couple people had to bail because they were not prepared. Bring solid rain gear and a tarp to keep your equipment/ammo off the ground. Bring good footwear and a change of socks. I was mostly ready for rain as far as gear for my body/gear/rifle, but my shooting mat was not up to the task, so my elbow was a slip and slide all over the place - pretty difficult to take the good advice from @Ironbar if you can't get that elbow planted and stable under the rifle.

I tried both of my 10/22's (one TechSights, one scoped) to see how I would compare. I could obviously see better with the scope, but it did not greatly improve my score. The reason in my case was that it was fine from standing/kneeling/sitting, but I struggled with eye-relief in prone. Make sure you find this out prior and get a cantilever mount if your eye-relief is poor in prone. Get used to using your sling, as others have said. If you go 10/22, you might have to drill holes for your sling mounts, depending on the model.

Also, I'd recommend altering your bolt lock to allow you to merely pull the bolt back a bit to release it into battery vs. fumbling with the bolt release every time. It's not too difficult on a 10/22 with a hand-file or Dremel (carefully, obviously), or you can buy a replacement part to do this. Another trick with semi-auto and the mag change is to fire your first round out of the 2-round mag and switch to the 8-round mag before you fire your second shot. The second round should be chambered and you avoid bolt manipulation. Might take some practice if you're not used to doing that.

I only got Sharpshooter. I intend to go back at some point. I could go 48/50 on standing (trick with standing is to shoot 2-3, drop the muzzle a couple inches to rest a few seconds, do 2-3 more - it works and you have plenty of time with 2 minutes). That dang prone position killed my back, and sitting cross-legged was difficult with my busted knee. As others have said, get limber and practice standing to sitting/kneeling and standing to prone. It'll matter. I was not accustomed to prone shooting much (mostly do off-hand) and it is absolutely vital to get this down as it is a large component of your score. You can't make Rifleman without mastering prone. Last stage is 5 min prone and counts double.

Embrace the wobble.

A note about CMP/M1 Garand, if it interests you... Make sure to get your paperwork if you don't otherwise qualify via some other means. Appleseed qualifies as 'live fire' proof, and if you're not a member of another qualifying org, joining RWVA is an inexpensive means to do so.

 

[RicInOR]

In general, If you can't do fast transitions - from standing to sitting etc. let your instructors know. Don't try and force it. Don't get hurt/injured.

You will still get great benefit from the weekend.

 

[Heyjoe]

Many thanks for all of the helpful tips and suggestions!

@Ironbar , solid advice! I'll be sure my rifle is in good order and dead nuts at 25 yards. I've been practicing prone position and reading on the theory in my free time which has taught me there's a whole lot I don't know.

I would recommend maybe not doing your first Appleseed with a bolt action.

The vast majority of participants in the class use some variant of the Ruger 10/22, or Marlin Model 60.

I want to reiterate the use of ibuprofen and a 10/22

As if I needed an excuse for more firearms! Thanks all, I think there was a 10/22 shaped space in the safe anyhow.

 

[Heyjoe]

.

Niiiiice.

I think my marksmanship skills are lacking and want to be totally focused on the training itself. That said, I'll be taking my newly acquired 10/22 and am entertaining the idea of running the bolt gun at the second event near me in June.

I imagine it took a good deal of time to develop a technique shooting from prone with a bolt action. Have you any tips there?

 

[Lightborne]

Niiiiice.

I think my marksmanship skills are lacking and want to be totally focused on the training itself. That said, I'll be taking my newly acquired 10/22 and am entertaining the idea of running the bolt gun at the second event near me in June.

I imagine it took a good deal of time to develop a technique shooting from prone with a bolt action. Have you any tips there?

Most of what I know I learned at the appleseed

I think the hardest part of using a bolt gun is having to manipulate the bolt without screwing with your natural point of aim. I kept wanting to lift my elbow off of the ground the work the bolt, and move my head out of the way so the back of the bolt didn't bonk into my glasses. After a bit of advice from the instructors, I found a slightly better position where I could work the bolt without compromising NPOA.