Poly80 Down & Out.

[VinnieBoomBah]

I'm a positive guy so I'm gonna read that as Celsius.

 

[MikeInOr]

Where are people getting the idea that it only takes 5-10 minutes to properly drill and mill an 80% receiver?

Maybe because that is about how long it took me to drill and mill my second P80 frame?

 

[mhayd93]

View attachment 1943044

A short barreled rifle and a short bodied dog, if this doesn't arouse the ATF I don't know what will!

 

[PiratePast40]

Maybe because that is about how long it took me to drill and mill my second P80 frame?

I've never done a poly frame so don't know about those. For an 80% receiver, perhaps 10 minutes, but that's in a CNC machine if everything is set up and ready to go. 10 minutes by hand? I just don't see how unless you're really, really good. You have to set depths and table height multiple times as well as change end mills and drill bits. If you hurry, you'll cause galling that takes even more time to clean up. 10 minutes would be a total hack job IMO.

 

[Koda]

I just don't see how unless you're really, really good. You have to set depths and table height multiple times as well as change end mills and drill bits.

Not for a pistol frame, which is the majority of the focus of illegal build schemes.

 

[HKUSP40TAC]

I made a G26 and G19. They were fun to build. The subcompact was 80% and the compact was a serialized frame. The 80% ended up requiring less fitting! The complete frame required a bunch of sanding and filling ironically. Kind of a shame P80 got sued to death.

 

[PiratePast40]

To be clear, the point of preaching to the choir is that the choir will be motivated to preach to others. In that thread, I mentioned an app called i360 walk. Not a single comment, and it tells me that others here haven't been doing much to campaign for those that represent us. If the members of this forum aren't participating in the preservation of our rights, who will?

 

[Certaindeaf]

I'm not surprised. This was the likely end result

New guns without serial numbers?. dafuque!

 

[MikeInOr]

I've never done a poly frame so don't know about those. For an 80% receiver, perhaps 10 minutes, but that's in a CNC machine if everything is set up and ready to go. 10 minutes by hand? I just don't see how unless you're really, really good. You have to set depths and table height multiple times as well as change end mills and drill bits. If you hurry, you'll cause galling that takes even more time to clean up. 10 minutes would be a total hack job IMO.

The fall out of Polymer 80 is AR 80% receivers and 1911 80% frames which both take actual work and craftsmanship to complete are going down with them... which is unfortunate.

Yep! Real gun builders are being screwed by the Polymer 80 debacle, by association, which really sucks! I maintain my assertion that P80 frames should have NEVER been approved as an 80% frame.

 

[arakboss]

I wonder why P80 couldn't produce serialized frames for the ban states and un-serialized frames for the other states ?

They did produce serialized frames, I bought at least one of them.

 

[Yarome]

10 minutes would be a total hack job IMO.

I think that's the threshold the "5-10min" claimers are holding. The bare minimum hack job, if you really know what you're doing and have 'uncommon' tools to do it that might render the frame/receive capable of accepting parts that may eventually allow it to discharge round/s.

How we judge things though are not based on the exceptions. It's based on how long it would take the majority of people to accomplish it, with commonly owned tools. The benchmark having to be consistent with the MFG's claims as well as the propogandists. ANY person with no prior experience and only common household tools.

Under their threshold... NO, they ain't popping out fully functional frames and receivers in 5-10min... or even 30min.

"Fully functional" is also not accurate in their claims. "Fully functional" doesn't mean ready to accept parts that may make it capable of discharging a round at least once. It means a fully assembled and "functional" frame/receiver capable of reliably repeatable "full function" as designed.

"I've done a few, know what I'm doing and can snip off a few tabs and hack out the channel in 5-10min" is not unreasonable. Is it a fully functional frame? NOPE! Could the average person with no experience and common household tools be able to do that? Not likely... and even if they could it still wouldn't be "fully functional".

Let's keep the right perspective here though. If you're among the tiny fraction of thugs and only need it to fire a couple times, I would imagine a 5min hack job might fit your needs, but for the law abiding hobbyist... which is who they were designed for, by far the vast majority, and who we're really talking about... the threshold is much higher. They aren't trying to hack one out as fast as they can and hope they can make a round go off.

They are trying to produce the best and most reliable end product their abilities allow. That takes TIME.

 

[bradsteen]

Then there was that time the New York Times broke several firearms laws trying to prove that Polymer80s were easy to build.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/09/reader-center/glock-19-kit.html

 

[Yarome]

Then there was that time the New York Times broke several firearms laws trying to prove that Polymer80s were easy to build.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/09/reader-center/glock-19-kit.html

A grown man, 6 hours and required professional assistance. Maybe it's just me, but that somehow doesn't seem consistent with the "teenagers banging them out in 10min in their bedrooms" narrative.

 

[HKUSP40TAC]

They did produce serialized frames, I bought at least one of them.

Me Too. The one I made was smoother then the complete P80!

 

[Koda]

Why does it matter how long it takes to build one?

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

Why does it matter how long it takes to build one?

Because all the laws and the ATF aren't there to make sure the people comply with the laws, the laws and the ATF are there to keep the poores and the undesirables from having things
Much like Form 1 suppressor building, where there is absolutely nothing in the actual law that says that you can't use use solvent trap cups, or un-drilled ice cream cups or whatever the heck you want and the only reason the ATF decided that those things were bad is because it was becoming too easy for a regular folks to "comply" with the law.

 

[Koda]

Because all the laws and the ATF aren't there to make sure the people comply with the laws, the laws and the ATF are there to keep the poores and the undesirables from having things
Much like Form 1 suppressor building, where there is absolutely nothing in the actual law that says that you can't use use solvent trap cups, or un-drilled ice cream cups or whatever the heck you want and the only reason the ATF decided that those things were bad is because it was becoming too easy for a regular folks to "comply" with the law.

So then in reality these kits weren't even 80% they were more like 0.5% kits.
Wasnt it the ATF that defined these kits as 80%? And now suddenly they are too easy?

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

So then in reality these kits weren't even 80% they were more like 0.5% kits.
Wasnt it the ATF that defined these kits as 80%? And now suddenly they are too easy?

The 80% is 100% arbitrary and yeah, too easy. These are the same folks that OK'd the Akins Accelerator specifically because it didn't work and just caused bad jams in the test rifle summited so they figured "What the heck, why not?"

 

[Koda]

People have been building guns forever but like the DIY 1911s by the time you were done... from 80% frames, you had invested in enough tooling you might as well get your license to mfg and go into business.

It makes me lose track of what were debating here. Were arguing over how its not easy to make them when they are banning them because of how easy they are to make?

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

People have been building guns forever but like the DIY 1911s by the time you were done... from 80% frames, you had invested in enough tooling you might as well get your license to mfg and go into business.

It makes me lose track of what were debating here. Were arguing over how its not easy to make them when they are banning them because of how easy they are to make?

JMHO but as others have said the issue really isn't how long it takes as much as it is the ATF lying whichever direction helps them push their agenda