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That is totally insane. I would suggest NO ONE in Commiefornia step foot in, or purchase ANYTHING what so ever, from ANY and ALL firearms stores starting NOW. Clearly the capitol denizens don't give one rip about the 2nd amendment. Maybe if the businesses that carry firearms, accessories and ammo don't sell anything for a week THEY will rattle the cages of the critters in SACramento?

You have to remember, Sacramento would be just fine if the businesses selling firearms, accessories, ammo, etc went out of business. These are the same people whose analysis said it should not take longer than two minutes to do the back ground check with negligible impact. These are also the same people who gave out of state vendors the impression that they could not sell to instate holders of FFL03 + COE without shipping to a California licensed instate ammo vendor.

It is a "win" for them if sales go down and there are less people aware of or exercising their 2A rights.
 
I know this is somewhat off topic, but it isint. Some dude at work was telling me Kate it related to what's his face California. Any truth to this??? If so, were DEFINITELY headed down the same path as Cali...
We have been headed down that path since all the displaced immigrants from Cali.arrived here.Only solution is get out of Dodge and let them have it!
 
Interesting. A US Passport establishes BOTH one's identity AND Citizenship. In fact, a valid US Passport satisfies ALL requirements for an I-9 form needed to hire someone and CAN'T be refuse by an employer under Federal Law.

I believe this incident will turn out to be a lack of training for staff, but still find the entire law a gigantic infringement.

BTW - the Law criminalizes the importation of ammo, except via an ffl. That means if you travel there, and bring some along ( even in your weapon or a magazine), you've violated the law.
:mad:
 
You have to remember, Sacramento would be just fine if the businesses selling firearms, accessories, ammo, etc went out of business. These are the same people whose analysis said it should not take longer than two minutes to do the back ground check with negligible impact. These are also the same people who gave out of state vendors the impression that they could not sell to instate holders of FFL03 + COE without shipping to a California licensed instate ammo vendor.

It is a "win" for them if sales go down and there are less people aware of or exercising their 2A rights.

Sad, sad truth to be sure. :(:(
 
Interesting. A US Passport establishes BOTH one's identity AND Citizenship. In fact, a valid US Passport satisfies ALL requirements for an I-9 form needed to hire someone and CAN'T be refuse by an employer under Federal Law.

I believe this incident will turn out to be a lack of training for staff, but still find the entire law a gigantic infringement.

BTW - the Law criminalizes the importation of ammo, except via an ffl. That means if you travel there, and bring some along ( even in your weapon or a magazine), you've violated the law.
:mad:

Ah, but a passport does not have a verifiable address in it and there-in is the rub for "tracking" purposes.

"You provide your current address when you apply for apassport. But unlike a driver's license, a U.S. passport -- issued every 10 years -- does not have your addressprinted on it. Instead, there's a space provided inside the passport for you to write your address, which you may wish to do in case of emergency."



Want to know another crazy violation? If I have a standard magazine that I have had for decades or acquired during "Freedom week" this spring, if I take it out of state to shoot - say go to FrontSight in Nevada , I am then illegally "importing" it if I bring it back across state lines back into California!

How about this - someone can't go out of CA to purchase and return with ammo but you can if your spouse buys it and gives it to you...

So, the average Joe is left with four options:

1.) take it in the shorts and obey the laws
2.) disobey and become a possible felon and/or loose 2A rights
3.) work the system and find appropriate legal work arounds
4.) spend much time in prayer that legal challenges will result in injunctions that will lift these burdensome laws/regulations until they can be tossed by the courts
 
That being said, if a referendum to ban guns were held today in CA, OR, or WA and every single person voted-pro-gun, and anti- we would probably lose. I can't speak to the swing group that doesn't really care either way- but I suspect they usually swing to the other side. It's a simple numbers game. If you don't agree, let's see your numbers.

You're like a broken record- placing the blame on a subset of a minority (gun owners that vote for gun control, or don't vote, or vote for a candidate you think is wrong). The numbers don't support your position.

This. In another similar thread, I did some research, came up with the numbers to demonstrate that we are outnumbered politically. It did no good. "Never mind the facts, my mind is made up." We still hear the old fiction that negative outcome votes for guns are a result of lazy gun owners.
 
Stupid Ca. laws:

Crazy law! Thank you for the video link.

There are some other states that will DENY you an ammunition purchase if you do not have a 'REAL ID' DL or a REAL ID State ID Card right now too. I have read this on other gun forums and in gun news online. And some of them REQUIRE those FOID type of cards (Not just in IL.) as we all know that are required for gun and ammo purchases.

I expect that the anti gun nonsense will spread across this country in ammo purchases and in RELOADING products too. I do not like it but I do believe that this will happen in the near future.

Side note here:

The thing is this... many people took their REQUIRED INFORMATION and proper papers when they went to renew their DL (Or state id card.) and the state was NOT prepared with their computer software to take it.

And that includes when some states finally gave in to the federal government and said that they would AGREE TO THE NEW REAL ID LAWS. They had been fighting them and/or having extensions made to them by the feds. This happened in my state of Montana. It happened in a few other states too.

Then all of a sudden, in a few months or in a year or so... the state (Or specific states.) finally updates their individual state REAL ID law and their computer software is still Not Ready when the citizens go in for a NEW DL or NEW STATE ID. ANOTHER delay and that goes for people who even take in all of their paperwork and proper forms that the REAL ID requires.

I know that this has happened to several people and that includes my MT husband for his DL last year and my State ID card a couple of years ago. (I no longer drive.) Now, if you want a 'REAL ID' card in MT and your valid, fairly new card is not expired - you will have to pay EXTRA MONEY just because they could NOT accept your papers in the past because they did not plan ahead - computer software or expect this to be a final law when they were fighting the feds.

Many people have had problems because their required paperwork was not GOOD ENOUGH for the state authorities too. And that goes for name changes due to first or one and only marriages (Some people in 40 or 50 years of marriage in some cases!) and their marriage certificate/license did not have a 'modern style' STATE approved deal by a state authority even though it was LEGAL and properly done in some states many years ago. Where a minister or priest or rabbi completed the entire form and where it did not go back to the state for some other OFFICIAL to put another stamp or signature on it. This was spoken about on some other forums with LINKS to back up the posters. So the authorities were telling those people that ALL of their papers even as an elderly person on SS who even had a passport was NOT good enough for the REAL ID DL or state card because the name change for a lady to her one and only husband or dead husband was NOT proper on her marriage certificate according to the MODERN STYLE ONES. So it was good for 50 years but NOT good enough for the REAL ID deal even when some things were hand done back in the late 60's in some states or where the state marriage laws were different yet LEGAL - VALID?!

My older brother and older sister were adopted by my birth parents during and right after WW2. They had different parents and were in different homes before Mommy and Daddy adopted them.

Anyway, my brother had no problem in Maryland with his papers. NY born.

My sister who has been married and divorced twice and changed her name to her new husband's last name with each marriage had HUGE problems in the state of Florida. NY born. (Illegal aliens? NO problem. Walk in and have a translator and walk out with bennies and that includes people from ALL countries not just one place.) Anyway, a few years ago, she called me for information so I could help her even though I am the baby of the family and born not adopted from our parents. (I was born in NY. I was raised in MD from the age of one.) It had to do with the REAL ID DL in FL even though some other people are not properly vetted when they cross illegally! The state of FL would NOT, not accept the NY adoption papers-birth certificate and questioned her on our parents names even though she had/has more CRAPOLA than I do to prove who she is and I just have the original NY birth certificates with all of the stamps. NY does NOT give out or did not give out the real birth mother's name on OLD original birth certificates when a baby or toddler is adopted out from an orphanage (State or religious one.) many moons ago. They issue a NEW birth certificate for the adopted child with the new parents names. Plus a paper showing an adoption. I have seen this on her papers in the past. My brother's papers too. They were sealed in some cases and/or they may still be sealed if that was requested many moons ago. She had the original NY one - legal and valid with our last name, baptism certificate, confirmation certificate, old grade school record in Maryland, marriage and divorce papers even though she was not divorced from her second husband at that time, old addresses in FL, etc.

I made calls for her AND I looked up some NY numbers for her to call to SATISFY the FL people at the DL department who would not know their @@@ from a hole in the ground with ALL of her papers. I mean she is a PACK RAT for old stuff (A grade school paper?!) and yet she tosses away or can't FIND important newer information. Geeze Louise! What a mess that was with her in FL crying for help from me in MT and calls to NY state and NYC.

She finally convinced the hard @@@ nasty woman who worked at the FL DL place after a talk with her supervisor and 3 or 4 trips to that freaking place. Meanwhile they had people who could barely speak English get their drivers licenses breeze on through. Go figure! I told her to get a supervisor to help and the supervisor had NO problems with her papers but the flunkie, control freak, nasty woman did. I told her that if the supervisor or a head kahuna did not get it fixed that I would go on the NEWS for her here in MT, put it all over the WWWeb and she should go on the news in FL. I told my sister to tell the FL supervisor this and I was dead serious but we did not have to go on the news.

When I remarried from being a widow, I kept my late husband's last name. I told my MT husband that I had that name for 30 PLUS years from my maiden name and I was not going to change all of that. He said that he didn't care if I kept my late husband's name or my maiden name or took on his name.

So the REAL ID is required for honest citizens and yet people who are not or can't be VETTED have no problems with jack squat in so many cases. And not just in FL but here in MT and all across this nation.

AMMO check laws and their .gov software systems don't work most of the time or they have constant hiccups. IT should not be required! But this DISEASE with gun/people control will spread to other states AND it will include reloading supplies too. My opinion and your mileage may vary.

Cate


 
Last Edited:
This. In another similar thread, I did some research, came up with the numbers to demonstrate that we are outnumbered politically. It did no good. "Never mind the facts, my mind is made up." We still hear the old fiction that negative outcome votes for guns are a result of lazy gun owners.

Agreed. It gets tiresome. And it directs attention away from working on a solution to the problem of deteriorating rights. It's not even just the The 2nd Amendment anymore either. Free speech is being attacked all over America too.
 
Cate: I fear for the free state of Montana. It is my understanding that when Tester and Bullock accepted copious amounts of campaign money from the DNC, they agreed to initiate the new trendy "reasonable gun laws" being imposed in the leftist states. Democrats are an infestation no matter where they pop up.
 
BTW - the Law criminalizes the importation of ammo, except via an ffl. That means if you travel there, and bring some along ( even in your weapon or a magazine), you've violated the law.
I was unaware of this part.
I can't even imagine how many others will also be unaware of this and will inadvertently be in violation.
So when driving into CA I suspect they will add 'And are you bringing in any ammo with you'? along with the fruits and vegetable question at the border?
 
... So when driving into CA I suspect they will add 'And are you bringing in any ammo with you'? along with the fruits and vegetable question at the border?

image.jpeg

I long for the kinder, gentler days when all you would be asked was - "pardon me sir, but do you have any Grey Poupon?"
 
Cate: I fear for the free state of Montana. It is my understanding that when Tester and Bullock accepted copious amounts of campaign money from the DNC, they agreed to initiate the new trendy "reasonable gun laws" being imposed in the leftist states. Democrats are an infestation no matter where they pop up.

Hello lady,

Yes, and I have written about it here and in OTHER PLACES including the NEW GUN LAWS mess within the city limits. And with some other things in the county. Open and conceal carry on trails and so forth. They have things going on in Lake and Flathead counties too. I am pretty sure that Lincoln county added some more stuff and Sanders is changing too.

The famous ADAMS CENTER gun show will NOT even be where it was for 40 or 50 years now. I think that it will be on the Reserve Street Holiday Inn. Too much to say there. It is always in August! The show will go on but NOT where it was for years on end. Another change and people are FED up with it all.

Some gun forums do NOT allow these discussions to take place! Uh huh - ask RV Tech and he knows what I am talking about. RV Tech is a nice and smart gun man too. He is a friend of mine.

Most of the time, I get ignored (LOL) or it is just in a group of posts. I do ADMIT that I write long posts sometimes to explain something or to ADD MORE to a discussion where something else happened in another state. And many people hate long posts or replies too. They can ignore me or scroll on by. NO problem!

The Governor of MT (D) who is leaving is running for president. He changed his gun views AFTER he got elected again as I knew that he would.

Tester - well - I will not go there now in this thread.

Our own AG Tim Fox (R!) has NOT helped Missoula city gun people except for writing one letter. TOO much to type and I would be repeating myself again or derailing the thread.

The others, not all of them, who are running again or are new and running now are ANTI GUN PEOPLE and that includes not only Ds but Rs too.

I have FACTS to back it all up with the gun stuff and I have facts to back up them NOT answering the questions about HANDGUNS and handgun ownership - not answered. Facts about sanctuary cities - not answered saying, "YES OR NO!" Only a reply that we don't have it now but NO honest reply and tons more.

It is not just in Missoula either - ALL OF THE COLLEGE TOWNS and many cities and SMALL TOWNS are being infested with this crapola. The cancer is spreading including with the FREE poop army people who want more and more. TOO much to say and THIS mayor wants to be like Seattle or Portland or like some cities in CA.

There are many MAYORS IN THIS STATE who are in the MAIG groups too.

I can say so much more.

I have had some friends in the GUN business - fact and two of them are dead now. Older men. I still have some friends in the GUN and/or gun political business. Some of them do shows and/or are FFL men. One woman was in the ammo business in the past too.

Right now, a few of them are in BOZEMAN, MT doing a gun show and there are MANY GUN PEOPLE in Montana who are still NOT AWARE OF THE RED FLAG LAWS! I kid you not. Older, middle aged and younger GUN owners.

I will leave that right there and those GUN political men who talk to these people are constantly amazed at what their customers still do NOT know on what has changed in THIS state of Montana.

Blessings to you and your family.

Sincerely,

Cate
 
California prohibits California residents from bringing ammo into California. California's new ammo laws do not prevent non-California residents from bringing ammo into California. That is one of the grounds that the CRPA/NRA sued California on.
 
Personally, I think that some specific states are OUTNUMBERED with their population wanting these new laws and bans. Anti gun people want it.

Some so called gun people (?!? not RKBA serious gun people in my opinion.) WANT these new laws and specific bans, uh huh, and I have READ that online and in other forums. I used to be able to pick it all out on some specific forums that I do not bother to read much or even post on. I do READ many forums and news links from ALL political sides. National and foreign news. I cut back on some forums due to their censorship.

I have heard and seen it at the Montana state capitol and at the Missoula city council meeting - entire sessions online. Plus seen it in person HERE in this town. Throw in the women, Mommy groups, Bloomberg funded groups, college kids and some 'religious' people who are anti gun or say that they own HUNTING GUNS or have family members in LE and they want more bans and laws. I am not kidding you here! IN person and in all of the news.

They do NOT understand that the Second Amendment is NOT about hunting yet they keep ON repeating this while CRIME GOES UP and tons more bad things happen in this state and across the country!

Another thing, the gun people who do NOT want more gun laws or bans are not just outnumbered in their towns, cities or states but they are TIRED OF IT ALL. They vote!

And you have a bunch of gun people who do NOT keep up with it all but they do VOTE too.

From what I have personally witnessed AT THESE LOCAL AND STATE FORUMS... the ANTI GUN OR SOMEWHAT ANTI GUN PEOPLE OUTNUMBER THE PRO GUN PEOPLE BECAUSE THE PRO GUN PEOPLE ARE WORKING OR CAN'T GET TO SOME MEETING.

PLUS THEY MAKE MANY OF THE COMMUNITY, SAFETY AND SPECIAL MEETINGS AT A TIME THAT SCREWS THE PRO GUN PEOPLE. OR THEY DO NOT ANNOUNCE WHEN THEY ARE HAVING THE MEETINGS OR WAIT UNTIL THE LAST MINUTE!

PLUS THE CITY COUNCIL, AS AN EXAMPLE, VOTES FOR WHAT THEY WANT EVEN WITH A BUNCH OF PROTESTORS WHO ARE NICE YET FIRM IN THEIR PRO GUN STANCE.

THE CITY COUNCIL, THE MAYOR AND OTHER ELECTED OFFICIALS DO NOT CARE. PERIOD! THEY WILL DO WHAT THEY WANT TO DO.

TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION IN MY OPINION!

The so called conservative, lol, R elected officials are NOT standing up for things that they should IN this state and across this country. That goes for the D ones too. THIS GOES IN GUN ISSUES and in many other issues too. Fact.

I have written, called locally and to D.C. so many times to so MANY ELECTED OFFICIALS and not just in MT. In my former state and some old school people, elected officials, got back to me too. Other so called conservative officials screwed us in GUN issues. Taft was one of them - old story on CCW issues.

The 'G man' here in Montana does not even reply or rarely comes to this town. NO local number either. The G man was the R man who was in the news with the one reporter. They had a fight. Now, he wants to be Governor and so does the AG who did not help us too. Throw in some other candidates. A lot of positions are open or they are switching around for different positions.

Crikey, you can't make up this crapola in GUN politics and in NO luck or even answers from some of these elected people. Or they just GO against the MONTANA CONSTITUTION and the US CONSTITUTION TOO.

Cate
 
Hello lady,

Yes, and I have written about it here and in OTHER PLACES including the NEW GUN LAWS mess within the city limits. And with some other things in the county. Open and conceal carry on trails and so forth. They have things going on in Lake and Flathead counties too. I am pretty sure that Lincoln county added some more stuff and Sanders is changing too.

The famous ADAMS CENTER gun show will NOT even be where it was for 40 or 50 years now. I think that it will be on the Reserve Street Holiday Inn. Too much to say there. It is always in August! The show will go on but NOT where it was for years on end. Another change and people are FED up with it all.

Some gun forums do NOT allow these discussions to take place! Uh huh - ask RV Tech and he knows what I am talking about. RV Tech is a nice and smart gun man too. He is a friend of mine.

Most of the time, I get ignored (LOL) or it is just in a group of posts. I do ADMIT that I write long posts sometimes to explain something or to ADD MORE to a discussion where something else happened in another state. And many people hate long posts or replies too. They can ignore me or scroll on by. NO problem!

The Governor of MT (D) who is leaving is running for president. He changed his gun views AFTER he got elected again as I knew that he would.

Tester - well - I will not go there now in this thread.

Our own AG Tim Fox (R!) has NOT helped Missoula city gun people except for writing one letter. TOO much to type and I would be repeating myself again or derailing the thread.

The others, not all of them, who are running again or are new and running now are ANTI GUN PEOPLE and that includes not only Ds but Rs too.

I have FACTS to back it all up with the gun stuff and I have facts to back up them NOT answering the questions about HANDGUNS and handgun ownership - not answered. Facts about sanctuary cities - not answered saying, "YES OR NO!" Only a reply that we don't have it now but NO honest reply and tons more.

It is not just in Missoula either - ALL OF THE COLLEGE TOWNS and many cities and SMALL TOWNS are being infested with this crapola. The cancer is spreading including with the FREE poop army people who want more and more. TOO much to say and THIS mayor wants to be like Seattle or Portland or like some cities in CA.

There are many MAYORS IN THIS STATE who are in the MAIG groups too.

I can say so much more.

I have had some friends in the GUN business - fact and two of them are dead now. Older men. I still have some friends in the GUN and/or gun political business. Some of them do shows and/or are FFL men. One woman was in the ammo business in the past too.

Right now, a few of them are in BOZEMAN, MT doing a gun show and there are MANY GUN PEOPLE in Montana who are still NOT AWARE OF THE RED FLAG LAWS! I kid you not. Older, middle aged and younger GUN owners.

I will leave that right there and those GUN political men who talk to these people are constantly amazed at what their customers still do NOT know on what has changed in THIS state of Montana.

Blessings to you and your family.

Sincerely,

Cate

Dear Jade and to the forum members,

I made two errors about the PLACE of the gun show that used to be held at the ADAMS CENTER. PLUS how long they have been doing it.

I apologize to you and the forum for my errors.

it is being held at the HILTON GARDEN INN not the Holiday Inn - I got the H letter right though. LOL It is ON Reserve Street in Missoula, MT though. Grin.

My MT husband thought that the show was much older too. It was founded in 1955! He was born and raised here shy of some years in another part of the state (High Line or Hi Line - different names for the same area of the state!) right off of the Rez but he went to school on the Reservation where his late Dad taught school.

So here is the correct listing:

Missoula Gun Show 2019

Date
  • Aug 2nd – 4th, 2019
    calendar-icon.png
City/State
Missoula, MT
Hours
  • Friday: 10:00am - 6:00pm
  • Saturday: 9:00am - 6:00pm
  • Sunday: 9:00am - 2:00pm
Admission
  • General: $7.00
Description
The 64th Annual Original Missoula Gun Show will be held on Aug 2nd-4th, 2019 in Missoula, MT. This Missoula gun show is held and hosted by Hayes Otoupalik. All federal, state and local firearm ordinances and laws must be obeyed.

The Annual Original Missoula Gun show was founded in 1955 and is Montana's oldest, largest, and best show. It is held annually in August and is attended by collectors of Collectors Arms, and Sporting arms, Indian, Cowboy, Civil War and Military Collectibles from 1845 to 1945, Curio and Relic Arms, hunting arms, ammunition, optics, and excellent artwork and antiques. No flea market, crafts, or fake items or food vendors are allowed. This is the best show in Montana with dealers and collectors from through all of the western states attending.

Location
Hilton Garden Inn and Conference Center 3729 North Reserve St
Missoula, MT 59808
Vendor
500 Tables

1st Tables $70.00

Dealer Setup:
Thursday 5:00pm - 9:0pm
Friday 8:00am - 10:00am

Promoter
Hayes Otoupalik

Apologies for my errors on the name and how old the show is.

Thank you!

Sincerely,

Cate
 
Most of the time, I get ignored (LOL) or it is just in a group of posts. I do ADMIT that I write long posts sometimes to explain something or to ADD MORE to a discussion where something else happened in another state. And many people hate long posts or replies too. They can ignore me or scroll on by. NO problem!

Cate,

For the record I'll just say that I appreciate you taking the time to write and I read through all of your posts. Montana holds a special place in my heart as I have fond memories of hunting there as a kid. I have spent a good amount of time learning of the issues there, and it has sadly been and continues to be damaged by leftists just as the other states. As you mention, D and R both anti gun believers running for positions of office. This has been a long term plan by progressives to infiltrate parties, and it is working. Continue to write whatever you'd like or start it in a new thread, as I'll read it. Thank you
 

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