New 1911 Commander 9mm, +P or +P+ ???

[KennVFRidr]

I just snagged a new model 1911 Commander 9mm, Model #04942XE. Manual states extensive use of +P ammunition will accelerate wear. I have no real 1911 experience (none with Colt 1911 9mm) Gunsmith recommends Underwood 115gr +P+ for defensive carry, and standard ammo for general use. I concur, but since manual does not mention +P+, I thought I'd see if anyone out there has any other thoughts?? I'll be loading my own range/practice ammo to standard pressures and planning to use the Underwood +P or +P+ or equivalent for carry.

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[Koda]

The idea of "needing" +P or +P+ ammo for self defense is a fallacy. Standard pressure 9mm ammo in any 4in bbl gun has like a hundred years of proven effectiveness.
Keep in mind that +P+ is not saami regulated either so no way to tell how much pressure that will be in your gun, if they break your gun you will have no way to prove the ammo company made them over saami pressure.

 

[TTSX]

your pistol was not designed for +p+, and it stands to reason of the manufacturer says +p will wear your gun out faster that +p+ will be even more aggressive. And, frankly, if standard 9mm isn't going to do it for you, you didn't want a 9mm in the first place

 

[RVTECH]

I don't buy ammo as I reload but I never exceed the posted data, and typically do not load anything maximum however I recently loaded some 9mm ammo for my new RIA just shy of the top load with TiteGroup powder.

I only did this as I swapped out it's cheesy 12 lb spring with a 'real' 14 lb Colt one. and the gun being new and pretty tight I wanted some loads a bit 'heavier' - but even though I am near the top of the data would this be considered +P ?

I guess I have never REALLY understood the +P or +P+ concept entirely. I am assuming it is a load that exceeds 'normal' factory pressures?

Someone please give me the 25 word or less explanation of +P.

 

[Catfishmoon]

Another vote for not needing anything beyond standard 9mm defensive ammo. Buy a .357 mag or 10mm if you want more foot pounds of energy in a handgun.

 

[Koda]

I guess I have never REALLY understood the +P or +P+ concept entirely. I am assuming it is a load that exceeds 'normal' factory pressures?

Someone please give me the 25 word or less explanation of +P.

The concept is for people who feel their caliber isn't powerful enough and don't want to buy a more powerful gun. The trade off is more recoil and more wear on the gun, and potentially damage to the gun if running +P+.

+P means above saami recommended chamber pressures for standard 9mm ammo. +P 9mm was never saami approved until more recently, as many handguns (not all) are strong enough so why not give it a definition, I guess. I don't think saami defines +P+ ammo at this time so anything sold as +P+ can be any pressure the manufacturer decides is safe. Note: not all +P ammo in other calibers is saami approved, most arent.

Im not going to look up the velocities but my guess is the additional velocity isnt worth the trade offs of using +P. Cant me much more than +100fps in a typical handgun barrel.

 

[TTSX]

I don't buy ammo as I reload but I never exceed the posted data, and typically do not load anything maximum however I recently loaded some 9mm ammo for my new RIA just shy of the top load with TiteGroup powder.

I only did this as I swapped out it's cheesy 12 lb spring with a 'real' 14 lb Colt one. and the gun being new and pretty tight I wanted some loads a bit 'heavier' - but even though I am near the top of the data would this be considered +P ?

I guess I have never REALLY understood the +P or +P+ concept entirely. I am assuming it is a load that exceeds 'normal' factory pressures?

Someone please give me the 25 word or less explanation of +P.

My only experience with loading "+p" was when I made max 115gr loads but I accidentally used a 124gr bullet. I figured calling that +p was accurate as it wasn't wildly spicy but they were a tad warmer by my perception

 

[KennVFRidr]

The idea of "needing" +P or +P+ ammo for self defense is a fallacy. Standard pressure 9mm ammo in any 4in bbl gun has like a hundred years of proven effectiveness.
Keep in mind that +P+ is not saami regulated either so no way to tell how much pressure that will be in your gun, if they break your gun you will have no way to prove the ammo company made them over saami pressure.

Sigh...I hate the word "need" in reference to firearms... ...it's all about compromise from my perspective. I wanted a Commander sized 1911, and while 10mm is a favorite caliber, it's probably a bit much for the Commander and my 67 year old wrists. So compromise with 9mm and I'll go with whatever ammo works best.

 

[RVTECH]

So compromise with 9mm and I'll go with whatever ammo works best.

Dammit Mister, I believe ya!

(coming from a guy who just bought a 9mm 1911!)

 

[monkeybutler]

With a four inch barrel standard pressure 124gr 9mm meets the 12-16" penetration spec. I don't see the point of +P except perhaps in a really short barrel.

 

[Knobgoblin]

Projectile design will probably make more of a difference downrange. Excessive pressure will be more impactful on the mechanism , and the shooter.

 

[KennVFRidr]

With a four inch barrel standard pressure 124gr 9mm meets the 12-16" penetration spec. I don't see the point of +P except perhaps in a really short barrel.

My favorite gunsmith believes in the more the merrier….

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

So the guy that makes money fixing broken guns recommends +P+ ammo?

 

[64MercurysRule]

Run Federal HST 147 gr or Speer Gold Dot 124 gr , standard pressure on both and you'll be golden .

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Yet another vote for....
Shot placement ( practice ) ....along with an appropriate bullet design.
And...
Non +P or +P+ ammo.
Andy

 

[albin25]

Sounds to me like your gunsmith is just trying to drum up repair business….
…. Not unlike a mechanic telling you to grossly over-inflate your tires for, wink-wink, "better gas mileage".

 

[Tlock]

Heck if there was triple +ppp I'd shoot it! More power more better for the almighty 9mm lung blower outer.....just kidding, just standard speer gold dot for me

 

[Alexx1401]

Now days there is enough video to spend hours. Look at some of the tests of the "better" 9mm ammo such as Gold Dot. The stuff is good enough that I would not bother with the +P+. Not to mention the price is high enough you are not going to be wanting to burn a lot of it.

 

[spookshack]

+P and +P+ will indeed accelerate wear in your firearm. Use it sparingly and you'll be fine. As for guns that could handle a steady diet of it, I'd have no issues running it in a full size Glock or any of the HK USP's. Your gun, you can run what you wish. Doesn't affect me one way or the other, but I vote for +P and +P+ and wear be damned!

 

[spookshack]

It would be interesting to see a 10k burndown with both standard pressure and +p and above 9mm ammo, then do a complete teardown and inspection to compare actual wear between them.