Need advice on hunting

[357 MAX]

I am against big magnums, (ego or over compesation) my nephew shoots a 300 win but he is big strapping 51 yo. he harvested a cow elk this year at measured 381 yards so if you can shoot your 300 well OK but too many hunters are over gunned.for what they are hunting. elk are tough yes but they are not hard to kill with a good hit, with a bad hit yes they can travel a long way when wounded. proper shot placement is everything. so if you can shoot that 300 magnum well go ahead but starting with a magnum is a bad idea.

 

[monks]

I am against big magnums, (ego or over compesation) my nephew shoots a 300 win but he is big strapping 51 yo. he harvested a cow elk this year at measured 381 yards so if you can shoot your 300 well OK but too many hunters are over gunned.for what they are hunting. elk are tough yes but they are not hard to kill with a good hit, with a bad hit yes they can travel a long way when wounded. proper shot placement is everything. so if you can shoot that 300 magnum well go ahead but starting with a magnum is a bad idea.

I'm with you. I've got a 7mm Remington mag that I inherited and I've never shot it! My 30-06 has always been plenty of gun for me and all that I really want to shoot.

 

[orygun]

I'm with you. I've got a 7mm Remington mag that I inherited and I've never shot it! My 30-06 has always been plenty of gun for me and all that I really want to shoot.

There ain't two spits (I was gonna say something else) difference between the 7 RM and the 30-06. One shoots a little flatter, one can shoot heavier bullets.
I've also owned and shot a 300 Win Mag, but only the 30-06 remains. If you can't do it with an '06, you probably shouldn't be trying.

 

[No_Regerts]

I am against big magnums, (ego or over compesation) my nephew shoots a 300 win but he is big strapping 51 yo. he harvested a cow elk this year at measured 381 yards so if you can shoot your 300 well OK but too many hunters are over gunned.for what they are hunting. elk are tough yes but they are not hard to kill with a good hit, with a bad hit yes they can travel a long way when wounded. proper shot placement is everything. so if you can shoot that 300 magnum well go ahead but starting with a magnum is a bad idea.

I've heard so many times that the 243, 270, 7mm-08, or 308 are great choices for "kids and women". Same guys carry some Tyrannosaurus Ultra Magnum and can rarely shoot them well.

That idea never resonated with me. To me, a lighter or less capable cartridge should be most effective in the hands of an expert. An experienced hunter should take pride in being able to place shots with lighter calibers. As a matter of fact, I spoke with a professional hunter from Africa and his favorite culling rifle was a 22-250.

I've become a huge fan of the 243 Winchester. It doesn't have a lot of recoil, even in light rifles. Easy to shoot well. I may have to be more selective of shot angles, but it hasn't cost me any deer.

 

[357 MAX]

I've heard so many times that the 243, 270, 7mm-08, or 308 are great choices for "kids and women". Same guys carry some Tyrannosaurus Ultra Magnum and can rarely shoot them well.

That idea never resonated with me. To me, a lighter or less capable cartridge should be most effective in the hands of an expert. An experienced hunter should take pride in being able to place shots with lighter calibers. As a matter of fact, I spoke with a professional hunter from Africa and his favorite culling rifle was a 22-250.

I've become a huge fan of the 243 Winchester. It doesn't have a lot of recoil, even in light rifles. Easy to shoot well. I may have to be more selective of shot angles, but it hasn't cost me any deer.

my dad was a 243 man until he bought a 300 win mag. he once told me "I have never lost a deer with 243" wrong I remember a big buck that got away, but left a 1 1/2" bone behind.
another buck he harvested, the recovered bullet had entered base first at an angle and mushroomed the base.

he clung to his 300win long past his ability to shoot it well.

the last hunt I went with him he shot 2 bucks with the 300. first one wounded in the hind leg second DRT. I had to follow the first buck about 2 miles and finish it. did not want to use my tag but what else could I do?

my 2 brothers had 300 mags as well.

 

[357 MAX]

I remember several times when my brothers had more game on the ground than they knew what to do with.

one time 4 elk on the ground, only 2 tags. we had to round up 2 more tags.
this was in the early 70s. all elk were recovered and used.
that mighty 300 caused more wounded game than they would admit.

 

[Xaevian]

I've heard so many times that the 243, 270, 7mm-08, or 308 are great choices for "kids and women". Same guys carry some Tyrannosaurus Ultra Magnum and can rarely shoot them well.

That idea never resonated with me. To me, a lighter or less capable cartridge should be most effective in the hands of an expert. An experienced hunter should take pride in being able to place shots with lighter calibers. As a matter of fact, I spoke with a professional hunter from Africa and his favorite culling rifle was a 22-250.

I've become a huge fan of the 243 Winchester. It doesn't have a lot of recoil, even in light rifles. Easy to shoot well. I may have to be more selective of shot angles, but it hasn't cost me any deer.

I've been saying that for years. I saw some crazy sh!t this year with my friends and we had some funny stories. Here is one:
One of my friends shot this buck with a .300 RUM this year. He could see the internals in the entrance wound. He left to get his ATV, and it got up and ran off.


I often catch and release fish. Now he shoots and releases deer. We never found that buck. Lol.

 

[No_Regerts]

I've been saying that for years. I saw some crazy sh!t this year with my friends and we had some funny stories. Here is one:
One of my friends shot this buck with a .300 RUM this year. He could see the internals in the entrance wound. He left to get his ATV, and it got up and ran off.
View attachment 2000046

I often catch and release fish. Now he shoots and releases deer. We never found that buck. Lol.

Is that the entrance in the upper armpit area? There is a void above the lungs and under the spin that can lead to that.

 

[Xaevian]

Is that the entrance in the upper armpit area? There is a void above the lungs and under the spin that can lead to that.

Dunno, I wasn't with him when he shot it. He was super bummed though. The crap that happened to us this year pretty much never happens to us normally. Kinda made this season special regardless of the outcomes.

 

[K-22]

Ahhh...
I can just see Og the Caveman arguing about which is better...
A Clovis point or the Folsom Point...
Andy

Folsom points are the newer improved version with a higher ballistic coefficient.
But, Ya know, some folks like to stick with traditional tools.

 

[357 MAX]

if the animal is still holding its head up,,,,,its not dead.
shoot again.

 

[Xaevian]

if the animal is still holding its head up,,,,,its not dead.
shoot again.

We all have to learn our lessons eventually.

At least he didn't laugh when I told him several years ago, I shot a deer at 250yds, knocked it down but it got back up, so I knocked it on its back again, and it got up again and I shot it a 3rd time on the run and that time kept going, jumped off a drop, and died in midair.

 

[bionic knees]

I've been saying that for years. I saw some crazy sh!t this year with my friends and we had some funny stories. Here is one:
One of my friends shot this buck with a .300 RUM this year. He could see the internals in the entrance wound. He left to get his ATV, and it got up and ran off.
View attachment 2000046

I often catch and release fish. Now he shoots and releases deer. We never found that buck. Lol.

One more time: it matters more where you shoot them than what you shoot them with. Lol.

 

[Xaevian]

One more time: it matters more where you shoot them than what you shoot them with. Lol.

Preaching to the choir. I once blew out the entire heart from a deer. Found parts of the heart along with a clump of lung tissue on the hillside. It still ran 80 to 100 yds. The blood trail on the snowy embankment...legendary.

It doesn't matter where you shoot them or what with (within reason...no animal walked away when hit "accidentally" with a 120mm sabot or heat round) unless it is like a head shot. Living tissue is weird like that.

 

[Alec-DU]

When it comes to gear I always work under the guidance "buy once cry once". Never have I been disappointed buying the gun of my dreams versus something cheaper to save a few bucks. Always received the advice that your scope should be 1.5-2x the cost of your gun when looking to do long range shooting. Elk hunting specifically I would focus on the 300 win mag, 7mm prc or the classic 308.

 

[Joel S]

I admittedly have not read all the posts here but I will dissent with bigger calibers are better and cry once buy once. For the first calibers don't kill bullets do and research by Dr Martin Fakler and others has shown that wounding is not necessarily a mechanism of bullet diameter and certainly not energy. Shoot the lightest caliber you can that reaches terminal speeds for maximum expansion to the ranges you plan to maximally shoot an animal. Keep in mind bullet manufacturers are listing minimum expansions not maximum. I tend to keep lead bullets at 2000 fps impact velocity or higher. So as an example only, if you plan to kill animals at 500 yards an in (which is already further than the majority of hunters shoot big game) you can research and find calibers that reach 500 yards at 2000 fps or more and back select from there keeping in mind that bigger doesnt necessarily mean more trauma and typically does mean more recoil to the shooter. The 6.5 PRC is a good option from what you mentioned and I much prefer the Ruger American Gen 2 vs the Tika T3 due to several personal experiences. Depending on the rifle and how well a gun groups a bullet the often claimed as lackluster 6.5 Cred ELDX from Hornady advertises over 2000 fps at 500 yards and would have significantly less recoil than e even the 6.5 PRC. So from your original post I'd suggest 6.5 CM in Ruger American Gen 2. But that also could depend on bullet selection.

Now why I dont believe in buy once cry once - having a marketing background I can tell you this most of the time is a marketing message. Why? Because people change. We change our habits, our likes, how we hunt, what we shoot, where we live, what we hunt, when we hunt and on and on. And each time we change we tend to buy new things or something new comes out that we "have to have." Always buy the best gear you can afford certainly there is no reason to pinch a penny to trip on a dollar but mortgaging your finances to buy a dream rifle isn't necessary. How much improvement could a shooter have if they put better glass on a gun and spent time behind the trigger (and possibly even upgraded the trigger) vs buying a 4000$ riffle. While there are most certainly differences, for most people they equate to arguably a less than 1% improvement over time behind any gun. Then once one has spent a lot of time behind a rifle and maybe use others as well one can better know what really appeals and what will best meet your needs and wants. The only place I won't skimp is a pack as in my opinion how weight is displaced and how one carries kit can make or break my style of hunting but that's me and not necessarily someone else's needs/wants.

Happy shooting and hunting and cheers!

 

[JRuby]

So foot pounds of energy has no bearing on this conversation? I disagree.

 

[Joel S]

So foot pounds of energy has no bearing on this conversation? I disagree.

Without trying to sound obstinate... Energy is at best an unreliable metric for judging terminal performance and likely has little to no bearing for the average hunter. Energy is based upon mass x acceleration however energy does not trigger expansion. Bullets are not listed at minimum ft lbs for expansion but velocity only. Expansion drives trauma which causes blood loss, CNS damage, or lack of oxygen. There are a lot of videos, papers, and podcasts that dispel and debunk the energy method of caliber selection - I am happy to share a few if interested.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Too long didn't read. If you have any bullet questions watch Ron Spomer on YouTube.

 

[JRuby]

Without trying to sound obstinate... Energy is at best an unreliable metric for judging terminal performance and likely has little to no bearing for the average hunter. Energy is based upon mass x acceleration however energy does not trigger expansion. Bullets are not listed at minimum ft lbs for expansion but velocity only. Expansion drives trauma which causes blood loss, CNS damage, or lack of oxygen. There are a lot of videos, papers, and podcasts that dispel and debunk the energy method of caliber selection - I am happy to share a few if interested.

Why do you believe there are minimum requirements to hunting dangerous game. To ignore the importance of energy impacted on game is to say that a 22-250 is a better deer rifle than a 30-06. I would like to see your evidence but on the surface I call BS