Need advice on hunting

[BigGame]

When I was in you shoes, I bought a 7mm Remington Magnum (Rem m700) that was about 10-11 pounds with scope, sling, etc. - field ready. It was a good elk rifle and I still own it. But today I hunt elk (and other) with a 7mm-08 that's only 6.5 lbs with scope and all. Using monolithic bullets, it's effective out to the ranges you quote and much more enjoyable to carry and shoot.

And I second everything said here about scopes. Keep them light and simple. Low end range is important and I prefer 3x. 12x to mid-teens is plenty for the high end. I prefer my hunting scopes to be 16 ozs. or lighter, though I own a couple that are 20 ozs. (heavy in my book).

 

[BigGame]

I'm going to lob in one more response here, as I realize my last one wasn't very responsive to the OP's questions. I've also thought about it a bit more.

If all of my hunting rifles disappeared, I was only allowed to buy one, it was mandatory that it be in a magnum cartridge, and handloading was off the table, I'd choose the 6.5 PRC. My alternates would be 7 PRC and 300 WSM. If handloading were back on the table, it would be a 7 SAUM or 7-6.5 PRC.

Barrel length: Don't get too hung up on this. Longer/shorter produces more/less velocity with the obvious additional effects on weight and handiness. The relevant question is how much velocity you require - figure that out and get the barrel length that achieves your needs. If your personal maximum shooting distance is 500 yards and you're inclined to shoot a monolithic bullet, do a bit of work with a ballistic calculator. For example, if you wanted to shoot the Barnes LRX bullet and your research told you it needed to maintain a minimum of 2,000 fps to retain effectiveness, figure out how fast it must be traveling at the muzzle (minimum) to still be going 2,000 fps at 500 yards. To estimate the effects barrel length will have on muzzle velocity, assume about +/- 30 fps for every inch longer/shorter than the test barrel length in the load recipe (usually 24").

Recoil: You've said you intend to use a muzzle brake, so this is a moot question. All of the cartridges you've noted will be tamed and shootable with a good muzzle brake. Keep in mind muzzle brakes will increase sound, so take hearing protection seriously (and those around you). Shorter barrels will increase muzzle blast, which translates to further increased sound with a muzzle brake. You won't be fun to sit next to at the shooting range.

Unsolicited advice, if useful: I would approach your problem in a different order.
1) Start with the bullet. Figure out how fast your chosen bullet(s) needs to be traveling at your chosen maximum range to be effective on elk.
2) The answer to #1 tells you have fast (minimum) the bullet must be launched at the muzzle, which informs the cartridge options to consider.
3) The cartridge choice from #2 informs the rifle you choose and its configuration.
The priority throughout is to keep that bullet at the right minimum velocity at your max distance. The rest is just personal preference.

 

[Koda]

Although Im not biased towards magnum cartridges, everything about BigGame's advice above is spot on and how I pick a caliber.

Add a few of my unsolicited thoughts, since I dont hunt with hearing protection I dont want a muzzle brake. Personal preference.
If I wasnt going to handload, I would first find what factory ammo is available with the bullet choices I would accept using. I would also try to select a caliber that would be more ideal to handload in the future if your open to that possibility, especially if you want to hunt long range out to 500yds.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Just speaking only for myself...as well as simply tossing this out to consider...
And not as something that someone has to do or agree with.

Learn to hunt...
As in learn the land you are hunting in....
Learn about the animals you wish to hunt.

People for thousands of years hunted and killed animals with rocks and sharp pointy sticks....
How you hunt is of more importance than what you hunt with.
Andy

 

[bionic knees]

When I started hunting there weren't hundreds of different brands of ammo or bullets to choose from. Or a ton of new calibers that really didn't do anything that existing calibers did You just grabbed a box or two, sighted in, harvested your animal and went home. Once again we as a group are overthinking a pretty simple problem. JMHO.

 

[Koda]

When I started hunting there weren't hundreds of different brands of ammo or bullets to choose from. Or a ton of new calibers that really didn't do anything that existing calibers did You just grabbed a box or two, sighted in, harvested your animal and went home. Once again we as a group are overthinking a pretty simple problem. JMHO.

I grew up hunting before all these modern cartridge designs, and it was the same "best caliber" questions back then too. Even back then hunters couldn't stop buying new calibers they thought were "better".

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Ahhh...
I can just see Og the Caveman arguing about which is better...
A Clovis point or the Folsom Point...
Andy

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Which reminds me...
The 4th graders at my school are studying prehistoric people...
The text book shows some stone tools and an atlatl.

So...
I bring into class a few stone points...some I made...some historic ones.
And...my atlatl which I made with stone tools.

The kids are paying attention...but...they are also used to me bringing in "cool old stuff" , as they call it.
I assemble the atlatl ....and all the boys are like....
OOOOHHH....Pointy stick....coooooool......LOL
Andy

 

[ChromeHound]

If you are open to reloading, the 6.5 PRC, 6.8 Western and 7 PRC are all flat shooting critter killers. If you want off the shelf, I would do a .300WSM over a .300 win mag. The WSM will achieve very close to the same ballistics out of a shorter barrel. The WSM ammo is readily available.
Tikka is a great rifle. The Rugers have cold hammer forged barrels and are underrated

 

[BigGame]

Big game seasons are coming to a close for the year. Overthinking gear questions is what we do for fun while waiting for the next season to come around again. What's the Internet for, if not this?

 

[Koda]

Before the internet these same discussions happened at gun shows, gun stores, read in magazines, discussed camping over summer with friends that hunt. The benefit of the internet is someone can get more opinions if they don't know or have friends that hunt.

Lots of new calibers are out there, some with improvements over older calibers. Everyone wants the most accurate rifle they can buy. Options are a good thing. There's already been a wealth of information shared in this thread in just 2 pages the OP can bank on.

Lastly, its fun to talk about guns and hunting.

 

[ChromeHound]

If you are open to reloading, the 6.5 PRC, 6.8 Western and 7 PRC are all flat shooting critter killers. If you want off the shelf, I would do a .300WSM over a .300 win mag. The WSM will achieve very close to the same ballistics out of a shorter barrel. The WSM ammo is readily available.
Tikka is a great rifle. The Rugers have cold hammer forged barrels and are underrate

Final thought. If you are concerned about the people saying "new cartridges aren't better", you could do a 280AI. Very lethal, is old school but you more than likely will have to reload for it.

 

[Koda]

A note about the 280AI caliber...

This is some 280AI factory ammo for it but harder to find, but it will still shoot traditional 280 Remington ammo which is available too. You can shoot both calibers in the 280AI chamber.

 

[357 MAX]

buy a 270 and don't look back! I have or have had 25 06 270 280 280 AI. 30 06 they all do the same thing. 270 or 30 06 you can always find ammo for about anywhere. 280 & 280 AI are long gone because they did not outperform 270. if you can, shoot a 300 magnum before you buy one to see if you can handle the recoil.

 

[dangerranger60]

If new to hunting, I would start with a 22 rifle and learn to hunt small game. You will learn tracking, stalking, sitting still for short times, game care, and it gets you out in the areas where elk are all year long. it uses the same skills needed to take an elk, but instead of a short couple of week season some small game are open to hunt all year long. Coyotes are another you can hunt all year long.
Once you have those skills you will see the rifle has very little to do with success. DR

 

[monks]

I haven't ever used a new anything for elk hunting. I've got a depression era Winchester model 54 30-06 with a Leupold 3-9x40 scope that does the job and it's still my first pick. There's a lot of good guns out there to choose from, more then ever. Spend as much or little as you like and go hunt.

 

[Greg S]

Dangerranger +1...

Weight is a non issue. The saying is easier to drop 10 lbs off my waist then 3 lbs off my rifle.

Where your planning to hunt, stainless and premium synthetic stocks are king. Not the cheapo injection molded factory stocks.

2-7, 3-9, 2.5-10 Leupold scope. You don't need a telescope. Save that money for a set of great binos (I e. Zeiss, Swarovski, ECT). You'll glass more than look through your scope.

I was in Alaska for 20 years. All my rifles are boomers, 375 H&H x2, 416 and a 458 weighing in a 9-10.5 lbs. Most with a quick detachable 1-4/5 variable. Guys used to bubblegum about 338 WM kicking like a mule; well yea, in a 6.5 or 7 lb rifle with a poor fitting stock.

My interior off season rifle was a 300 WM with 180-210s. Shot like a 308/06 compared to other rifles. Stock fit.

If I was looking at a 7 or 30 mag and you plan to reload, look at the PRCs or smooth cases. A lot less work. 06 is plenty for the NW. It's been killing bubblegum dead for over a century and ammo is always available. 300 + yard shots is lazy.

A stainless Marlin Guide Gun in 45-70 is another power house to consider with handloads. The 1886s are nice but 2 pounds heavier and not available in stainless.

A lot of this can be picked up on the used market in particular good scopes and binoculars.

The 22 and small game hunting resonated with me.(∆) It's how I started. Big city kid, no mentor. Didn't start hunting till my early 20s. Got me out in da woods looking for signs, stalking and being quiet. Marksmanship with a 22 bolt gun trying to make clean shots.

my $.02

 

[leverite]

Hey guys, I'm looking to get into hunting and range shooting (200-500 yards) and I'm looking for some advice. I'm 44, been shooting for the last 15 years so I'm not unfamiliar with firearms, but I've focused more on self-defense/tactical shooting. So, going to bench shooting or "hiking/sitting in the woods" shooting with high caliber rifles is somewhat new to me. I've been doing a lot of research on rifles and ammunition and I've found there are so many variables when trying to choose a rifle/caliber. I'm also in pretty good shape and have done a lot of hiking/climbing/mountaineering in the past so weight isn't a big deal for me, but having something compact would be a preferable.

Objective: Elk hunting in eastern Washington state. Range shooting at 200-500 yards.

Budget: $2000.00 +/- I've pretty much settled on the Arken Optics EP5 5-25x56 so that leaves about $1500 for a rifle, bipod, rings, and sling. I already have a spotting scope and range finder as well as the gear necessary to spend hours in the back-country.



Initial thoughts: I decided to select a cartridge that would fit my needs first, then select a rifle. Seems like 6.5 PRC, 300 Win mag, and .30-06 are some of the top choices. 7mm PRC seemed like a good choice as well, but cost per round is pretty high as is 6.5 PRC. I want to focus on good shot placement which takes practice as well as an accurate bullet. 6.5 PRC seemed to fit that bill nicely, but its expensive so practicing a lot would be quite expensive. Also, recoil is a big consideration. How much will I want to shoot something with a lot of recoil? .30-06 seemed to fit the bill for lighter recoil and cheaper rounds, but didn't seem like it would be as accurate as the newer bullets. 300 Win Mag seemed like a good compromise between recoil and cost so I've been focusing on that cartridge. I'd love to hear your thoughts on the balance between recoil, cost, accuracy, ect. Also, in regards to bullets, I assume you don't want to shoot anything you're going to eat with a lead bullet, so I was thinking solid copper for hunting and cheaper lead bullets for practice. I'd assume you sight in with the hunting round and then just adjust when practicing with the lead rounds?



Rifle: Initially I had my heart set on the Ruger American Gen 2 as its one of the cheapest options and still a high-quality accurate rifle. However, barrel length seemed to be an issue. The 20in barrel (standard) is available in all the calibers I listed above, but 20in seems pretty short for high caliber rounds? The 22in (Predator) is only available in .30-60 and 7mm PRC. Is 20in too short for 6.5 PRC or 300 Win Mag? Does anyone know if they plan to offer the Predator in 6.5 PRC or 300 Win Mag?

The next rifle I was looking at is the Tikka T3x Superlight. That rifle seems to be available in all the calibers and 22-24in barrels. It is a bit more than the Ruger, but still should be within my budget and I'm willing to spend a little more to get something that better matches my objectives.



I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. Did I miss anything? Are my thoughts on track or way off base?



Thanks



Jeff

I will undoubtedly catch hell for this post, but wtf...
You say you are in good shape, so why the need for iffy 500 yard shots? The sport is hunting...not long range shooting. The target is a living, breathing animal, not a steel plate. Stalk to get your shots within 200 yards and gear choice gets easier.

I know...you can wipe a fly's bubblegum with a bullet at 1000 yards. I don't care...animals can move while the bullet travels. You have reaction time. Rifles have lock time. The wind blows here and there.

Enjoy the hunt!

 

[ChromeHound]

I will undoubtedly catch hell for this post, but wtf...
You say you are in good shape, so why the need for iffy 500 yard shots? The sport is hunting...not long range shooting. The target is a living, breathing animal, not a steel plate. Stalk to get your shots within 200 yards and gear choice gets easier.

I know...you can wipe a fly's bubblegum with a bullet at 1000 yards. I don't care...animals can move while the bullet travels. You have reaction time. Rifles have lock time. The wind blows here and there.

Enjoy the hunt!

I don't think you will catch hell. The last elk I shot, I stalked to under 100 yards when I had an opportunity at a 400 yard shot.
That being said, I got lucky with the wind, the ground being soft from light snow and enough light vegetation to cover my movements. The sad reality is that opportunities to take animals are becoming more and more rare and there isn't always the opportunity to stalk up. Especially if you have a general season tag where another hunter could pop up at any time and take the 400+ yard shot you passed on. Also, it's easier for most people to go to a shooting range and practice long range shots than it is for them to head out to practice stalking. Ultimately, a properly prepared hunter will assess all factors in the field and make the best decision for that situation. Being able to make long shots doesn't mean you have to but if you don't have the equipment and practice to do so, it limits your options.

 

[CrackPipe]

You are getting a lot of great advice to pick from. I hunt elk with a bow but many of the what others have said apply to both archery and rifle. These are the things I believe are important and most have already been mentioned.

• Learn elk behavior.
• Learn the area you will hunt.
• Practice with what you will hunt with and use a projectile that has a higher percentage of getting the job done even if the animal moves.
• Elk are big and very tough animals. If you don't hit them right, they can go a LONG way.
• Learn to track.
• Elk move after the shot and before the hit. Watch videos and pay careful attention so that you have a clue when they are more or less likely to move.
• Know your limits and decide what's an ethical shot for you ahead of time and stick to it even if it's the last minute of the last day of the season.

Good luck!