Sorry, t's not in my job description to play your games or scour nationwide court archives to satisfy a single individual that's chooses to ignore plain text. Especially when Illegality within a law is not determined by the level of enforcement or conviction rates to begin with.
They got this thing called the internet. Shouldnt take you too long to find the information you know is out there. I mean you know people are convicted in federal court all the time for this, right? They have to be because theyre bad. Theyre law breakers. Law breakers get convicted at astronomical rates. One . Just One (1) conviction in 90 years. Thats all it takes. Just one cite. Just show that guy that was convicted in federal court for moving and using an NFA item legally across state lines then using it in an area he was not signed off on said 5320.20. The rest of us law scoffers that think we know that the ATF is limited in its scope of what it has the authority to actually do on the ground, no matter what they portend, will be blown away and convert ourselves into law reciters without regards to prior ATF decisions, judgements, past practice , court decisions, constitutionality, precedent, states rights etc. Just one. You can do it . Then, when you do it, drop that mike. Say you're gonna leave then actually do it man.Sorry, t's not in my job description to play your games or scour nationwide court archives to satisfy a single individual that's chooses to ignore plain text. Especially when Illegality within a law is not determined by the level of enforcement or conviction rates to begin with.
That's just an exercise in stupidity. But have fun in "your world"!
It's your right.....
Sorry little buddy.
But youve been done with the topic 3 times already.Sorry little buddy.
Tripling down on a flawed premise/argument, to begin with, isn't going to gaslight me into spending my time to play your little game or feed your sense of self importance.
One of your "go to's" is putting words into peoples mouths, but I never once claimed that people have been convicted under the exact same circumstances you are trying to argue as "legal". As far as I know... it's just as possible no one has as it is someone was. As it has zero bearing on the legality of an action under the color of law, I couldn't care less.
Again... enforcement, or lack of enforcement... does not determine what is considered legal or illegal under a law. The law itself determines that.
You are the one trying to argue that, regardless of what a law might say, any action is only illegal if people are getting arrested and convicted for it.
Instead of trying to move the goal posts under a flawed narrative, If you really want to prove your point then all you have to do is cite somewhere in the rule/law, the form instructions, in the alphabets FAQ or a direct statement from an alphabet agent indicating that a entire state may be used as an authorized "location" on a dot20.
Short of that... I'm done with you on this topic.
I'll wait...!
For the record... twice... kind of. Once, that I wasn't going to restate previous discussions. Your whole... "it's not illegal and laws are moot if people aren't being convicted" nonsense is new.
Yeah. It's pretty obvious they basically just "rubber stamp" them without much scrutiny... and really don't seem to care all that much about active enforcement.
Another overblown story. As an FFL holder in a. town of 200 other FFL holders who are not being hassled or persecuted or having their licenses revoked in a state full of FFL holders who are not being hassled or persecuted or having their licenses revoked and as a guy who knows FFL holders all across the country who are not being hassled etc...
You must be right, O' omnipotent one.
Quick math.. of 133000 FFLs what does that pencil out to as a percentage increase in license revocations?You must be right, O' omnipotent one.
In 2021 there were 34 inspections with violations cited resulting in formal action regardless of outcome. 30 of them resulted in a revocation or voluntary surrender of their license. Nearly 12% survived.
In 2022 there were 252. All but 12 survived. Over a 500% increase and 4.5% survived.
In the first 6 months of 2023 there were 187. Only 1 survived for a .05% survival rate.
Stats have yet to be released for the last half of the year, but reviewing pending cases and planned inspections, the alphabet estimated there would be approximately 600 closed for business by years end. Basically a 200% increase over 2022.
New licenses issued has remained fairly constant for several years so at least the influx of new licenses hasn't diminished all that greatly. It's not making any dent in offsetting the ones closing their doors though.
(https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/enhanced-regulatory-enforcement-policy)
But I'm sure you know better than the alphabet's own stats. There has been no increased scrutiny or attacks against FFL's. It's all just fake internet media hype. You never fail to impress.
Not much! New issue rates have only seen a very slight drop, but for all intents and purposes it has remained constant for the last several years. It's not offsetting the revocations in any way.
i wouldn't say so. The low hanging fruit guys happen once. Highly unlikely it was their first transgression anyway. There were a LOT of really sloppy dealers doing abysmal record keeping out there. Missing guns, missing 4473's etc. Ive known a few over the years that it was no surprise when they got their licenses revoked after multiple violations. The rest of us use computerized books which you really have to try to screw up. . What they did is knock out the 5 or 6 strikes and youre out system that had been in place and put in a system where all you have to do is keep your books straight .It behooves you to keep your books straight. Its not that hard..Not much! New issue rates have only seen a very slight drop, but for all intents and purposes it has remained constant for the last several years. It's not offsetting the revocations in any way.
Also to remember is that those numbers only represent revocations or surrenders. It does not account for "natural" closures or non renewals. IE., Gun shops shuttering their doors out of impending fear for their future, unable to do business in high crime rate locations or the impact on profits from recently passed 2A restrictions.
While true there has been a buying frenzy of firearms, that doesn't save... say.... that FFL over in 'wherever' that specializes in high end and custom AR/AK platforms that just found themselves in a state with new AWB. Or the FFL that can't get in product his local customers want because suppliers are too fearful of new or impending new gun control laws within that particular state.
Regardless. How many new FFL's that are actually just going into business and have yet to be audited aren't really part to the point that was being made though... now was it. Maybe a question to speculate on would be, how many new licensees will remain in long term business(?)
There has been a very clear impact from the WH's new "zero tolerance" policy push and revocation numbers have dramatically skyrocketed since the policy implementation. You can't draw definitive conclusions from only 2 years of data, but the trend so far is dramatic yearly increases, which should be alarming to anyone who has a vested interest in their 2A rights... or relies on the 2A community for their livelihood.
But I have no idea what the point was of asking the question. You already know everything.
It's interesting that all of the good FFL's, worthy of keeping their licenses, all use computerized services.
"Easy" often comes at a cost. Just like gooberment "protection".
Yes, and many of the really bad ones that refused to computerize their books were easy pickings when the ATF man came around to look at their books. I mean everyone makes choices. If you suck at record keeping why compound your problems ? I know of very few dealers in my area that even fill out paper 4473's any more. I do but I used fastbound for my bound system. .No, the ATF does not have access to third party bound book systems.It's interesting that all of the good FFL's, worthy of keeping their licenses, all use computerized services.
I happen to know more than a few FFL's that have been in business for years... some decades... are in excellent standing with the alphabet and refuse to computerize their books. Most especially the remote book keeping services common today. Citing customer info safety concerns and making gooberment oversight and data collection more difficult.
Many of their customers appreciate that and remain loyal. Go figure!
Or in other words... caving to goobermental pressure to take the provided path of least resistance and allowing gooberment real time access to transaction records.
Except they dont have access unless theres an audit in which case they would have access nonetheless, sure. The ATF does not have access to third party bound book systems .Or in other words... caving to goobermental pressure to take the provided path of least resistance and allowing gooberment real time access to transaction records.
Gotcha!
