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ghandi is on record, circa the battle for Indian independence, acknowledging the futility of nonviolence (carrot) without the implementation of violence (stick). other criticisms of ghandi aside (pretentious misogynist racist classist jerk) he was no dummy when it came to recognizing real material social/political conditions and strategizing accordingly. in other words he believed in freedom too much to throw away certain circumstantially useful tactics for mere ideological interpretations. iirc, there's something where ghandi admonishes people not to judge those physically fighting the British.

as far as Stalin, if he wasn't anti gun he would have reformed gun laws. just because he inherited an effective and genocidal system of control doesn't mean he is morally superior to his predecessors. on the contrary. furthermore, he was a part of the party when those systems were created so.

as far as the constitution and the American people today, when you read the papers the framers wrote and what they were reading, it gets clearer that they 1 expected social systems (family, church, community, whatever) to do a lot of the "Americanizing" of each new generation 2 they did not see this country as a Government, but as a People, who would in turn create a small utilitarian orginization, an employee or subcontractor, to more cheaply do some few needful things. 3 they had no illusions about government, and intended the revolution to be perpetual in spirit and therefore hopefully rarely so desperate as to need violent insurrection but knowing that the constant real possibility of insurrection would keep the government and moneyed interests from attempting a coup. they knew the government could never be a check on itself so the 2nd amendment is like a hint, that the 4th branch of government cannot be government but must be the people armed and organized for themselves and not for it.

Vedy good ! you get it :)
 
I stated that I was? I missed where I stated that. Could you point that out for me? Thanks.:s0155:

You didn't, but your personal history, no matter how tragic, has no bearing in this argument. Stalin wasn't pro-gun, but his attitude towards guns is irrelevant because
population didn't have guns before him, population had them briefly during him, and they did not overthrow him while they were armed. It is typically the same pattern with all of those regimes - people play along to the bad leadership, and bad things happen. Oh, and by the way, when October revolution happened, people weren't armed either.

But from your perspective, what would be useful anecdotes that would support/promote, "The Cause"?
I'm all ears...

That's the thing - anecdotes are not useful at all. Most of the stuff that's going on here is preaching to the choir using the same propaganda methods (should I link wiki article on what propaganda is?) the anti-gun crowd is accused of. Some members even get emotional like 12 year old girls. Not sure what irritates me most - the anti-gun crowd, or the fact pro-gun crowd can't take a higher moral ground and beat them there.
 
Then, why did you make that false statement that I had?

It's funny how you're creating a confrontational situation out of thin air. You stated :

Having not only had a grandfather who was an officer in the Imperial Guard, pre-revolution and during the revolution, but also family who were shot in the back of the heads, and left in the dirt many years later, and some who (we think) rotted to death in the Gulags, and I can tell you that when you state, "without being forcefully disarmed" you're a bit full of crap, and you most likely know that.

Basically it can be seen like if you elevate yourself to a position of "authority" on the subject by having a personal history. In a way you also said that :

Well, now your in my territory.

Now, my position is that personal history is irrelevant, because we are talking about the bigger picture. A lot of people (including myself) had interesting family histories in those, prior, and later years. So I say :

You're not the only person here who "had a grandfather".

When you asked me whether you literally stated that you're the only one with such history I answered no, you did not. I hope we have an understanding now.
 

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