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mosin bolt issue and the mule kick

Discussion in 'Curio & Relic Discussion' started by BrotherGlacius, May 9, 2015.

  1. BrotherGlacius

    BrotherGlacius Portland Member

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    So went to the range today to fire my 1891 mosin. About one in every four round would have to be ejected as the bolt would not close for them. I was firing rounds from the same 20 round paper container. These were Romanian military surplus rounds (red line at the case end).

    Some rounds the bolt closed with no issue. Others, it took a very firm push to get the bolt to close, the rest, not at all.

    I have heard about sticky bolt syndrome, but since this was not consistent, I didn't know if it was the same thing or not. It was very frustrating.

    This was also the first time firing a mosin, and my shoulder is not happy with me. I even have a rubber (albiet very stiff) stock cap on it. I finally had to take the sling, fold it, and place it between the stock and my shoulder so that I could fire more than once every five minutes.

    As a complete newbie, is this common for WWII rifles? Are there tips and tricks to help reduce this? I had ideas about getting a 91/30 or maybe an M39...but if they call kick like this or worse, not sure if it is worth it. Need some help in surviving my mosin.
     
  2. Joe13

    Joe13 NW of Vancouver Opinionated & Blunt Bronze Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    You can get an aftermarket shock resisting pad for the butt of the stock but that's probably about it as far as reducing the kick - you bought a rifle capable of taking down a moose so you gotta expect relative kick for the cartridge...

    Having said that, the more you shoot it the better you will handle the recoil.

    My .308 kicks pretty well too, not something I'd want to shoot all day.

    Not a smith so I'm not sure about your bolt issue. Have you broken it down and cleaned it?
     
  3. bolus

    bolus Portland Gold Supporter Gold Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    Definitely take the bolt a part and clean it well if you havent. Its pretty easy to disassemble and does not need tools. Just check the position on the firing pin since it needs to be screwed out and should go back to the same position

    is it easy to close when there are no rounds in the gun?

    If the extractor is not adjusted correctly it will hit on the end of the casing instead of slipping over the lip. It might need to be pushed outward.

    AAQ1IMj.jpg
     
    jbett98 likes this.
  4. finnmike

    finnmike Vancouver, wa Active Member

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    If you want to experience a REAL mule kick fire up a Steyr M95.
     
    Qaolin likes this.
  5. bolus

    bolus Portland Gold Supporter Gold Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    50 Beowulf is about twice the kick as the mosin. we all compare bruises after firing that.

    By the way @BrotherGlacius , you can get a replacement stock which is heavier and has better padding like this one

    YaIFPTl.jpg
    https://www.etsy.com/shop/LuckyShotWoodStocks
     
  6. WAYNO

    WAYNO Oregon City Gold Supporter Gold Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Remember in physics class about the equal and opposite reaction? The stouter the cartridge, the more recoil, everything else being equal. Stepping up to stouter cartridges has always been a rite of passage in growing up. And obviously, not everybody can handle recoil as well as others.

    And recoil is relative. I consider the Mosin Nagant to be very easy to shoot. Far easier than any .30-06-class cartridge in a sporter weight hunting rifle.

    So if a feller is sensitive enough to recoil that a Mosin is too painful, it's time to shoot a gun with a less powerful cartridge.

    WAYNO.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2015
    Joe13 likes this.
  7. DieselScout

    DieselScout S Clackamas County Well-Known Member

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    Is this your first centerfire rifle? I am just curious as I've found Mosin's have a bad wrap when it comes to recoil. There seems to be this internet folk lore and myth about the recoil being hard to manage and painful. I think it comes from two places, the first being Mosin's are cheap, so they are many people first interaction with a centerfire larger then .223. The second can be fixed and it's stock design. The Mosin wears a simple easy to make stock, which is very straight and has no checkering. Getting a stock with more of a pistol grip, some good checkering and a nice recoil pad will tame it right down.

    Or just get use to the recoil. I don't find the recoil any worse then my .30-06 was before I put a decelerator pad on it. It's way less then the featherweight 7mm Rem Mag I use to hunt with. Sighting a new scope in on that gun was a chore, but it was a nice rifle a friend loaned so I didn't complain.

    As WAYNO pointed out simple physics dictate actual recoil. Felt recoil is something different, more ethereal. It can be mitigated and the Mosin can be a joy to shoot.
     
  8. SHPD_Retired

    SHPD_Retired Saint Helens Well-Known Member

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    airtechfamily.png

    Limb Saver is a good recoil pad to reduce kick. Better than those old hard rubber ones.
     
  9. BrotherGlacius

    BrotherGlacius Portland Member

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    I just ordered a product, a sleeve with various pads that can be inserted. This way once I expand my collection, I can easily swap it and adjust based on the gun. Thanks for the suggestions. Most were helpful. :)
     
  10. corpsman

    corpsman Pierce County, Washington, United States Active Member

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    Suggest you examine the chamber for burrs and/or cosmoline and powder build up. Many combloc cartridges have a sealant on the casing that will leave residue with heat. Get a 7.62x54R chamber brush and some bore solvent and work the chamber over.
     
  11. orygun

    orygun West Linn Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    One thing shooters new to heavier recoiling rifles do is not tuck the butt tight into your shoulder. If you give that gun any "room to run", it's gonna whack you hard. Make sure you hold it snugly to your shoulder.

    Of course stock design and recoil pads will help lessen what you feel.
     
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  12. coop44

    coop44 Tacoma ,WA Well-Known Member

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    yep, not going to run out of ammo for mine for a while. After about 10-15 rounds I put it down and take a breakfor a month or two. Need to get dies and reload some reduced recoil rounds.
    I never thought the mosins were that bad, recoil wise, but I'm a studly he man sort of guy.

    clean up that bolt, clean up the chamber. polish the lead in on the extractor so it will ramp up and over the edge of the case smoothly. remember this is a combat rifle and is meant to be operated "briskly", easing in the round and slowly closing the bolt carefully isn't the way it was meant to be operated.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2015
  13. Qaolin

    Qaolin 1 A.U. from a G2 near Beaverton Old Army Cook Silver Supporter

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    I shoot all of mine, from the 91 to the carbines in standard military configuration. Last time out I burned through 100 rounds with no ill effects. But then, I am a meaty guy so I have an advantage.
     
  14. corpsman

    corpsman Pierce County, Washington, United States Active Member

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    There is a slip on, over the shoulder, pad brand, PAST. These are very effective as they tend to disperse recoil energy laterally to the direction of the recoil. Only need one as it is on your body, not the long gun.
     
    BSG 75 likes this.
  15. BrotherGlacius

    BrotherGlacius Portland Member

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    So I think I will have the recoil issue handled. However, I still need to fix the bolt issue. While searching the net, I found this post:

    It appears to be an extractor issue which is very common on 91/30's. The extractor is unable to clear the cartridge rim and rams into the extractor groove in the chamber face.
    Pounding it in gets the bolt closed but then you can't open it. The pics below should help explain what is going on. See where the cartridge rim is damaged by the extractor.
    See if your extractor has a streak of copper on the spring face. Adjust it as shown.
    The images the guy provided did a great job of showing the issue, and I believe it is what is happening to my gun. However, he doesn't explain what the fix is. Anyone know how to fix the issue he is describing?
     
  16. AngryRedTicTac

    AngryRedTicTac Vancouver, WA Active Member

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    How did you do your initial bolt cleaning? I would guess your extractor may be immobile due to residual cosmoline. If there is devils snot in there you may have to bake the bolt a little and hit it with mineral spirits to clear it.
     
  17. BSG 75

    BSG 75 Oregon Well-Known Member

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    The image he posted http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/download/file.php?id=1033&mode=view shows him putting the bolt head in a vise and tapping down the back end of the extractor with a brass punch. He used the bottom of a 7.62x54R case as a gauge to set the extractor gap.

    By the way, +1 for the Past pad
    http://www.midwayusa.com/find?sortb...onids=4294846291&newcategorydimensionid=10711

    I won't shoot a Mosin without it. Shooting should be fun, not painful. The Past pad reduces flinching and helps you shoot better. For all the he-men who are about to thump their chests and brag about how they can shoot any rifle without a pad with no pain at all, good for you.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2015
  18. BrotherGlacius

    BrotherGlacius Portland Member

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    So he's pushing in the back of the extractor in order to cause the front of it to push outward away from the bolt?

    I have also seen a video where the owner uses a stone/file to smooth out the extractor where it contacts the shell. I'm sort of tempted to just take it to a gun smith. I would really hate to do damage to the extractor.
     
  19. Benchrest

    Benchrest The Desert Planet Well-Known Member

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  20. twa2471

    twa2471 Vermont Active Member

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    The ATI stocks aren't to darn bad either if your planing on changing out your stock, pretty reasonable too. There really nice on the 38's, ,44's & 59's, on the 91's there fine too, but I don't think they look quite right in that stock with there long barrels. A couple better condition/better shooting ones I did with the ATI stocks, I drilled it for pillars and bedded them & the action with 5 minute epoxy and there was a very marked improvement in recoil and accuracy, a big difference accuracy wise. I was getting consistent <2" groups with 65 year old eyes with irons, just using shaky old tree branch for a rest,,not bad IMO for75 year old guns that has already fought in at least 1 war and with both having only average to very good range bores !!

    You can and should do that with an original stocked one also, it makes a huge difference in recoil and accuracy with them too. The way there so roughly made the actions don't really fit the stocks very well and there's allot of movement, so tighten everything up good by doing that . It's well worth it. Let me warn ya though,,it's a heck of a job getting all that cosmoline out of the pores of the wood, one i did I kind rushed and didn't get it all and the epoxy didn't stick well and I had to redo it, so clean that action area in the stock real real well with carb cleaner,or whatever other type of clean evaporating solvent you happen to like and rough it up with a Dremel tool and repeat cleaning as needed.

    There's some cheapo Chinese butt pads available for those too that is only around 8-10 bucks or so and those work pretty good plus give you about an inch of extra length which works good for me with the original stocks,,they kinda fit like crap and aren't overly pretty ,,but Hey It's only a Mossin after all and they work well!! So No Biggie.