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M2 conversion parts on eBay?

Discussion in 'NFA Weapon Discussion' started by Mark W., May 12, 2012.

  1. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    How is this not a violation?

    US M1 Carbine Disconnector, Lever, selector. | eBay

    If the parts kit is considered a machine gun would not the majority of the parts in a kit also be considered to be NFA items?

    Just asking because with those parts and a few min with my milling machine or a drill press and good vice I could modify the hammer to M2 spec's. the only other work required is to open up the stock a little for clearance and to make a very simple spring.
     
  2. Toxic6

    Toxic6 Higher then a PDX hipster (~10,000 ft higher) Active Member

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    Why is a parts kit considered a machine gun? Are you talking about ebay regulations?
     
  3. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    NO the ATF considers the conversion kit to change a std every day GI M1 Carbine into a Select Fire M2 to be the machine gun. Since you can take the parts out of an M2 and if you replace the hammer its now a semi auto only weapon. You can then take those parts to the next M1 and make it into a M2.

    Has nothing to do with ebays rules. These are 3 of the 4 parts (plus a simple wire spring) that is considered by the ATF to be a Machine gun. And requires a Tax stamp.
     
  4. Toxic6

    Toxic6 Higher then a PDX hipster (~10,000 ft higher) Active Member

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    ...I've seen full auto ak parts/kits being sold before, always had disclaimers about atf stuff though. IDK I thought you could sell parts/kits and the use/legalities fell to the buyer/end user if they assembled them....but i haven't looked into it so am likely wrong.
     
  5. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5320-8/atf-p-5320-8-chapter-2.pdf



    The “combination of parts designed and intended for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun”
    language refers to a group of parts designed and intended to be used in converting a weapon into a
    machinegun. A typical example is those M2 carbine parts that are only used to permit fully automatic
    fire in a US Carbine M1 or M2.
    M2 Carbine conversion kit
    The above parts consisting of an M2 selector lever, selector lever spring, disconnector lever assembly,
    M2 disconnector, disconnector spring, disconnector plunger and M2 hammer are classified as a
    machinegun. These parts are used specifically for fully automatic fire and have no application in a
    semiautomatic carbine. While other parts such as an M2 sear, operating slide, trigger housing and stock
    are used in the fully automatic carbine, these parts are also appropriate for use in semiautomatic M1
    carbines.

    Therefore, the M2 sear, operating slide, trigger housing and stock are not a combination of parts
    designed and intended for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun. Other commonly encountered
     
  6. Toxic6

    Toxic6 Higher then a PDX hipster (~10,000 ft higher) Active Member

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    could be somebody skating by then, could already be notated and under surveillance, could be a sting......I am willing to bet that most people who own an m1 and possess the knowledge and skill to actually use those parts know better then to buy them (and probably could make their own if they really wanted too).
     
  7. bmgm37

    bmgm37 Coos Bay Active Member

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    Not a problem if you own an M2 and want some spare parts.
     
  8. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Yes it is since its the 4 conversion parts that constitute the machine gun not the carbine
     
  9. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    If you bought these parts and then bought a M2 hammer somewhere you would have a Machine gun even if you never owned a M1 or M2 carbine
     
  10. korntera

    korntera Oregon Member

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    Sure about that?

    It depends on the firearm as to what is registered as a "machine gun" for example if you had HK's you would buy a DIAS or Drop In Auto Sear, they also make these for AR15/M16's. In this case the auto sear is the registered machine gun. In other examples it is the gun like an M11 or M16 the receiver is the machine gun but I can readily buy full auto parts kits for M11's and its not a machine gun, my registered lower receiver is the gun.
    So no its not illegal to sell machine gun parts.

    Otherwise it would be like saying you can't sell a 10.5" barrel because it could be used on a non SBR, yet we see 10.5" barrels all the time. Hell every AK-47 parts kit that I have bought comes with full auto parts and auto sears. I just throw them away and build the gun with the semi auto parts.

    Based on your post your saying it should be illegal because it has the potential to be illegal if the wrong person where to do it, sounds like the carrying in school argument, nobody should conceal carry in a school because it could be illegal if they started to shoot people, but if we ban carrying in a school or likewise ban selling machine gun parts it restricts the rights of people who legally carry concealed or own machine guns. Hope this all makes it more clear for you.
     
  11. civilian75

    civilian75 Hillsboro, OR Well-Known Member

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    Kortera is on the money. Select fire parts are nothing as long as they are not a registered NFA item. Only eBay restrictions apply.

    Anyone M1 owner can by this kit. Having the parts and a M1 does not make it a machine gun. Modifying the receiver to receive the parts, now, that's what will get you in trouble. Same deal as with adding the third hole to an AK47 US made receiver.
     
  12. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    OK The parts in the M2 conversion kit are considered to be in themselves a MACHINE GUN by the ATF. You don't need to have a Receiver a barrel a bolt or a anything else to be considered a MACHINE GUN and have to have a Tax stamp.

    The M1 carbine has absolutely NOTHING to do with weither the parts are an NFA item.

    The is NO MODIFICATION TO THE RECEIVER ON A M1 CARBINE to install this kit. Only a little bit of wood needs to be relieved to clear the selector.

    SO no you can not own the conversion parts unless you own the TAX STAMP that goes with it.
     
  13. eganx

    eganx Kingston WA Active Member

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    So in your OP you stated that you would have to modify the hammer with your mill........so hows that a drop it kit? Sounds like what was sold is will not make an M1 an M2 to me.
     
  14. RedneckRampage

    RedneckRampage Newberg Well-Known Member

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    What about a FA BCG for an AR?
     
  15. RallySoob

    RallySoob Salem, OR Active Member

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    Korntera is an awesome name...
     
  16. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    The actual conversion kit comes with a modified hammer.

    I mentioned modifing an original since it is so easy to do. you could also source a "Parts" M2 Hammer and complete the kit.

    If the parts in the conversion kit are themselves a resistered machine gun according to ATF. then how can some of those parts be sold and not still be a machine gun. Granted you can sell the barrel from a thompson M1928 but you can't sell the receiver as a part. Because the receiver is the registered part.

    As I read to comment here the concensis is that the parts are not a conversion kit until all the parts are assembled in one place. Which to me sounds very gray area.
     
  17. Tornado-Technologies

    Tornado-Technologies Hillsboro Active Member

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    You are correct, the ATF does consider the M2 conversion kits to be a machinegun in and about themselves, just like a drop in auto sear or a lighting link.

    By definition for the M2, the kit must consist of:

    1. M2 selector lever
    2. selector lever spring
    3. disconnector lever assembly
    4. M2 disconnector
    5. disconnector spring
    6. disconnector plunger
    7. M2 hammer

    If it doesn't have all 7 parts, the kit is not an MG.
     
  18. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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  19. Tornado-Technologies

    Tornado-Technologies Hillsboro Active Member

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    He's not selling all of the 7 parts as a group.
     
  20. Toxic6

    Toxic6 Higher then a PDX hipster (~10,000 ft higher) Active Member

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    So if I were to buy both auctions,then maybe keep them stored in the same container.....I would in essence have an unregistered machine gun in my possession, even though I don't own an M1 carbine?
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2012