long range shooting,300wm or 7mm mag?

[mjbskwim]

OK I was set on a 300wm for elk hunting,reaching out a little but not a fan of sniping big game.
Then I started watching TiborasaurusRex's Sniper 101 series of videos.Don't know his qualifications but seems to have good info.
The question is,does the better BC of the 7mm really make this a better longer range caliber than the 300wm.
Now I'm thinking of smaller animals and just all around long range stuff. Plenty of places to shoot around here.
His charts show the 7mm carries more energy out farther than the 300 with the charts given bullet weights.
Again this would be a 4-500yd elk rifle and for antelope,wolves,coyotes and such past there
What? You think you have a better caliber? So lets hear it!

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[Stomper]

.50BMG...

 

[mjbskwim]

I was thinking the 416 chey tac but don't have a spare 30k to build one

 

[edslhead]

Ive got em both and a 338 win mag. I'd say there all bad as$.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Note that he only has/uses just a few slugs to showcase the calibers he's talking about.. I think in .30, top tier he's showing is 190gr SMK (etc).. there are better slugs for target and hunting at long range in .30 than what he's showing..

 

[Spray-n-pray]

I suppose it all depends on the projectiles compared, but what is the ballistic coefficient he quotes for the 7 mm mag?

Dang it, now part of me wants to haul myself out of bed to grab my reloading books and compare some numbers.

 

[DieselScout]

With most commercial loads at 400-500 yards with similar weight bullets you're only dealing with 3-4" in POI change. For those yardages I don't think it really makes a difference. I think post 500 is really where you see the 7mm shine. While I don't have a 300 or 7mm Mag I have both their little brothers, .308 and 7mm08. I am really looking forward to seeing how they preform differently.

 

[mjbskwim]

I suppose it all depends on the projectiles compared, but what is the ballistic coefficient he quotes for the 7 mm mag?

Dang it, now part of me wants to haul myself out of bed to grab my reloading books and compare some numbers.

Well Chuck Hawk doesn't exactly agree with his BC numbers.he puts the 2 pretty much the same.Again ,what projectiles are being used?
With Chuck,he's probably using the same BC bullets to show comparative ballistics,where as TR is showing what you can get from each. Speculation right there.

With most commercial loads at 400-500 yards with similar weight bullets you're only dealing with 3-4" in POI change. For those yardages I don't think it really makes a difference. I think post 500 is really where you see the 7mm shine. While I don't have a 300 or 7mm Mag I have both their little brothers, .308 and 7mm08. I am really looking forward to seeing how they preform differently.

Yes,the point is past 5-600 yards,what's best.
The 7mm '08 seems like it might just be in the mix as it ain;t so bad on the tables.Not that mush less anywhere than the 7mm mag

Spray-n-pray,good idea on checking the books.Haven't been reloading and forgot the BC numbers were in there

 

[DieselScout]

Yes,the point is past 5-600 yards,what's best.
The 7mm '08 seems like it might just be in the mix as it ain;t so bad on the tables.Not that mush less anywhere than the 7mm mag

For the tables I've seen and the information I've read the farther out you go the better the 7mm bullet gets over the .30 Cal.

 

[Certaindeaf]

For the tables I've seen and the information I've read the farther out you go the better the 7mm bullet gets over the .30 Cal.

Berger makes some nice bullets.
Some of their .30 have significantly higher BC's than their 7mm offerings.

http://www.bergerbullets.com/products/all-bullets/

I heard that a SA company makes some 190gr .30 slugs with a BC of very close to 1

 

[No_Regerts]

Under 500 yards, as mentioned above, there isn't enough difference to matter in regards to external ballistics. Terminally, I prefer the bigger slug.

If you want to play the 600+ yard game, things can be made equal between both cartridges BC and SD wise but you pay in recoil with the 300.

The 7 has a slight advantage, in my opinion, in case length. The 2.5 inch case gives you more magazine to play with seating depth vs the 2.62 inch 300 case. This matters most in rifles that differentiate between "long" 30-06 length actions and "magnum" 375 length actions. Shoot a 700 and it don't matter so much because they don't differentiate.

I only have shooting experience at those distances and not hunting experience. As a shooter, I'd go 7 and not look back. On elk, I'd be temped for bigger.

 

[Velzey]

.30 190gr SMK I've had great long range luck with. Prior to having a 7mm STW I used the 7mm rem mag with 140gr bollits but not over 500 yards And I used the 300 Win with 190gr SMK's out to 600 yards....both while long range hunting.... Not something to just jump right into I may add.

These days I use a 7mm STW and a .338 Lapua for long range work.

 

[No_Regerts]

That STW is a neat cartridge. The parent 8mm Rem Mag is a beast.

 

[P7M13]

Heck, get both and be done with it!
Problem is getting a high MV for the heavier slugs.
In 168gr, the 7mm has a much higher BC than the 30 cal. Both are about the same out to 500 yards, then the 7mm is the better choice.
My philosophy: know your ballistics and the limitations of what you're shooting.
If it's windy, you want the heavier bullet by far.

For example, I shoot some 250gr 338 SP pills that have a horrible BC. In 338 Lapua, I'd shoot them to 600 confidently, but no farther than 800. When I want to shoot 1000 & beyond, it's the Lapua Scenar and the Berger Elite Hunter / OTM. The farther I go, the more I want better BC and higher bullet weight.
No_Regerts, I've never considered sectional density.
Velzey, 7mm STW -- Nice! That would be the next cartridge I want to build for. Do you use a brake with it?

 

[No_Regerts]

As a hunter, I don't normally think of SD either because I'm not into LR hunting because I don't get the opportunity.

But if I'm slinging lead at long range at animals, SD starts to matter because you want that bullet to be able to reach the off-shoulder, should you need to.

For equal SD, you'll pay for it through recoil in a 300 or 338 as compared to a 7. But then again, I do like bigger holes.....

 

[orygun]

There are a few downsides to the Win Mag that can be covered by using a Weatherby Mag.

 

[Certaindeaf]

There are a few downsides to the Win Mag that can be covered by using a Weatherby Mag.

The Weatherby is quite the horse. We used to use the 300 and .257 WM's on elk and stuff in Montana a long time ago to good effect.

 

[mjbskwim]

As I said,I don't like snipers shooting elk at 1000 yards.Maybe learn to hunt better?
Anyway,so the 7mm does do better beyond the 600yd mark? I think about how guys get the biggest bore they can afford,mostly so they don't have to chase animals.And i can dig that. I see out here how you could want to take a shot at 1k. Lots of open range and possibilities could be had at those ranges.You can see for miles in these hills
And,and that guy is getting close to my elk!!!
The 338 lapua or the RUM is tempting too.But that's a lot of powder to use just plinking
To buy both or to buy all of aforementioned calibers I would have to go back to work and I don't know that they are that important
I keep remembering that folks sling arrows and kill massive bulls every year at about 40 yards or less

Hey thanks for all the replies so far. Please keep the thoughts and info coming.

Mike

 

[No_Regerts]

Sounds like your hunting preferences are within a realm where long range minutia have little to no effect. If that's the case, buy whatever you have more confidence in. I've never met an elk I wouldn't shoot with a 7mm Rem Mag and 160gr Nosler Partition at 2900 fps. I've also never met an elk where I wouldn't feel a little better with a 180gr Partition from a 300 winny. Or even a 30-06 for that matter.

I know, I know. Nosler Partitions aren't sexy LR hybrids. Buy, for the average guy, they sure do work well.

 

[P7M13]

I know, I know. Nosler Partitions aren't sexy LR hybrids. Buy, for the average guy, they sure do work well.

LOL! Noslers are good bullets, but at 1.5 - 2x the price of the equivalent in Hornady, they're pricey for me. I feel my arse pucker when a bullet costs > 60¢. I think the only bullets I've ever spent more than that on are in my recently purchased box of Berger Elite Hunters in 338.