LOCK & LOAD where did it come from

[fredoesway]

where did the term lock and load come from?

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[ma96782]

Black powder days.

Aloha, Mark

PS...popularized in.....

Lock-and-load Meaning | Best 2 Definitions of Lock-and-load

https://www.yourdictionary.com › lock-and-load
Origin of lock-and-load Originated in American English, supposedly as an instructional command to prepare an M1 Garand, the main rifle used during World War II, for battle. the expression was popularized 1949 by John Wayne in the movie Sands of Iwo Jima. Various similar phrases predate it, including in transposed form as "load and lock".

 

[fredoesway]

I was watching an old movie today made in 1965 and they where using this phrase when they were having target practice. i wont say what genre. anybody have a guess as to what rifle they were using.

 

[fredoesway]

i guess it is a nobody cares thread. anybody can do an internet search. but internet answers are sometimes "that sounds cool we'll go with that" the movie was "The Glory Guys" a western about cavalry. the rifle they were using was trapdoor springfield. the term used should have been load and lock i think.

 

[Nosferatu]

Movies are always the best place to get factual information about firearms, history and their use.

 

[fredoesway]

yes but the movie was somewhat factual the only fly in the ointment was the scout using what appeared to be a model 92 Winchester. we all know the libertys Hollywood takes with the facts. also journalists. but that is the reason we ask questions.

 

[jjfitch]

where did the term lock and load come from?

The term may go back as far as the American revolution! Soldiers everywhere are limited to the amount of ammo that they can carry as well as sneak attacks where an inadvertent discharge would give away the element of surprise.

Many Revolutionary battles were engaged with firearms unloaded and the enemy was engaged with bayonets only. The lock and load command would have been given when soldiers were set to engage with firearms. The same with a sneak attack.

In camp during later battles/wars firearms were/are kept unloaded until ready for battle. Hence the "lock and load" command seen in movies!

I can think of battles where our troops were overrun by the enemy and caught with too little ammo for the ensuing battle because the ammo was kept in locked bunkers away from quarters. Our troops were carrying unloaded firearms as well! Who can explain "the Army way"?

Smiles,

 

[bcp]

For bolt action rifles, the command was "load and lock."

1896:


and in 1916:


Then the M1 arrived. It could be locked before loading, so the command became "lock and load."



Bruce

 

[pharmseller]

I always understood it to mean place the firearm on safe, then load.

 

[JustSomeGuy]

For box fed weapons, lock a magazine in place and load the chamber.

 

[ma96782]

i guess it is a nobody cares thread. anybody can do an internet search. but internet answers are sometimes "that sounds cool we'll go with that" the movie was "The Glory Guys" a western about cavalry. the rifle they were using was trapdoor springfield. the term used should have been load and lock i think.

Or....it could also be thought of as......
You need to (will probably/maybe need to) operate/manipulate the lock mechanism. To open or place the weapon into a "safe enough" position. So that you can load (or re-load) it.

Works with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion and/or the old BP cartridge firearms (such as the mentioned trapdoor).

Aloha, Mark

 

[SavageGerbil]

Are we sure it isn't from cannons on ship? I'm no pro on the process, but I'd be hard pressed to imagine them not doing something to keep them from succumbing to centrifugal force as the ship moves around while they're pulled back to load

 

[OldBroad44]

In earlier times plenty of city people didn't have their own guns or any training with them. So militias could include a lot of untrained people. In addition, they and the civilian population in general was routinely drunk much/most of the time. water was often contaminated with diseases. Hard cider, Wine, beer, rum, and hard liquor, sometimes diluted variously, especially for children, was often drunk instead of water specifically to avoid diseases. Farmers would usually own guns and have gun training. But not city people necessarily. So a militia might include many who had only the little training they got as part of the militia, and many of them were drunk much of the time.

So soldiers and loaded firearms might be better kept apart unless battle was eminent. Otherwise there was too much danger of their killing each other or others in drunken brawls or accidents. Probably also helped prevent a lot of mutinies and deaths of officers too.

 

[Ura-Ki]

I was always told it was Load and Lock, and it was holliweird that screwed it all up! As to specifics of the M-1 Garand, it makes perfect sense and probably How Holliweird changed it, "Lock" the bolt back and "Load" the clip, holding the charging handle back with the web of your right hand so you don't get "Garand Thumb" It's the opposite for bolt and Lever actions, "Load" the Mag, "Lock" the Bolt in Battery safety ( If any) On! Same with most belt fed Machineguns, "Load" the belt, "Lock" the top cover, charge and safe the weapon! It makes fuzzy sense mechanically as an action, What are you locking before loading?


FWIW, I believe it works ether way, and don't really care, you can yell it out ether way and everyone should know what it means!

 

[Stomper]

It's military parlance for chambering a round into your weapons, or locking an open bolt machine gun to the rear and placing the rounds into the feed tray.

In a nutshell, it means place your weapons into "condition one."

 

[Ura-Ki]

Looking at this both historically and through the Manual of Arms, "Lock an Load" as a command doesn't fit/doesn't work!
Historically, and in the manual of arms, up until metallic cartridge firing weapons ( Repeaters, including Manual Loading, Semi-Auto and Automatic) the standard for infantry and gun crews was pretty much the same. It usually ran something like this: Swab, Load, Ram, Prime, Lock, Aim, FIRE, rinse and repeat! This was done to guide un trained and trained alike, keep it simple stupid, fight with a set cadence and maintain order! Pretty much the exact same for gun crews, Swab, Load, Ram, Prime, Lock, Aim, FIRE! When the self contained cartridges came into use, it changed to something like this: Load ( ether manually loading each cartridge into the breach, or charging with clip or tube feed), Lock the Weapon in Battery, Aim, FIRE! Pretty much the same with Gun Crews, Load the Breach, Ram, Prime, Aim, FIRE! With the Repeaters, it changed again, Load, Charge, Lock, Aim, FIRE! Now days, unless there are specific reasons, it's no longer a practice of command to issue such orders, except to gun crews, or crew served weapons systems, the line solders are simple told "Weapons Free" Or "Go Hot" or other such orders, and they do what needs doing!

 

[Stomper]

Looking at this both historically and through the Manual of Arms, "Lock an Load" as a command doesn't fit/doesn't work!
Historically, and in the manual of arms, up until metallic cartridge firing weapons ( Repeaters, including Manual Loading, Semi-Auto and Automatic) the standard for infantry and gun crews was pretty much the same. It usually ran something like this: Swab, Load, Ram, Prime, Lock, Aim, FIRE, rinse and repeat! This was done to guide un trained and trained alike, keep it simple stupid, fight with a set cadence and maintain order! Pretty much the exact same for gun crews, Swab, Load, Ram, Prime, Lock, Aim, FIRE! When the self contained cartridges came into use, it changed to something like this: Load ( ether manually loading each cartridge into the breach, or charging with clip or tube feed), Lock the Weapon in Battery, Aim, FIRE! Pretty much the same with Gun Crews, Load the Breach, Ram, Prime, Aim, FIRE! With the Repeaters, it changed again, Load, Charge, Lock, Aim, FIRE! Now days, unless there are specific reasons, it's no longer a practice of command to issue such orders, except to gun crews, or crew served weapons systems, the line solders are simple told "Weapons Free" Or "Go Hot" or other such orders, and they do what needs doing!

Load and lock doesn't "sing"…..

It's like someone saying "I could care less" instead of, "I COULDN'T care less".

 

[jjfitch]

Or....it could also be thought of as......
You need to (will probably/maybe need to) operate/manipulate the lock mechanism. To open or place the weapon into a "safe enough" position. So that you can load (or re-load) it.

Works with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion and/or the old BP cartridge firearms (such as the mentioned trapdoor).

Aloha, Mark

See Post #7!

Smiles,

 

[pharmseller]

 

[OldBroad44]

When I was a kiddie for a couple of years when I was in HS our family lived on a military base. One of the recreational activities for military brats was a course using a .22lr rifle range. The guys running the range were the same military guys who trained adult military recruits, and they used the same system of commands. This was about 1963. Lock and load. Ready on the right. Ready on the left. Ready on the firing line. Commence firing.