Poll: Kicking around a couple SBR projects ...

[CountryGent]

So, I kind of have a hankering to do another Form 1 build. A couple that come to mind are:

Option One: H&R Retro DOE in 9ₓ19㎜


Retro-neat. Runs on inexpensive ammo. Can be suppressed easily. SBRing it would just be Form 1 filing, engrave, buy a real stock. If I had my druthers, this would be the one. Alas, sold out, and no idea if ever returning.

Option Two: vz. 61 Pistol in 9ₓ17㎜

I already have one in 7.65ₓ17㎜SR Br / .32 ACP and it is, easily, one of my favorite carbines. (My better half really likes that one too.) SBRing would be Form 1, engrave, buy backplate and stock, and done. Easy to suppress. Is in stock right now, though if history is any guide, I need to move on it sooner rather than later; Czechpoint USA is notorious for guns and parts coming in in fits and starts from Europa.

A couple honorable / wacky mentions are DD projects (here and here) I'm considering, though the cost would be significantly more and the work on one is beyond my home gunsmithing abilities. (The USAS is almost certainly a no-go, for various factors. And I haven't really started beating the brush on builders who could make the .577 beast yet, so don't know if it is realistic or pie in the sky.)

Anywho, what say you on this freezing January afternoon?

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[ORhutner]

I am sure the H&R Retro DOE in 9mm will be back in stock. I would just sign up for the in stock notifications and be ready to swipe your card when you get the notice. It shoots the cheapest ammo you can buy short of 22lr and takes colt stick mags so it would be cheap to stock up on mags right now. I say be patient and go for the DOE but buy a bunch of colt stick mags right now.

 

[Gbirk]

So, I kind of have a hankering to do another Form 1 build. A couple that come to mind are:

Option One: H&R Retro DOE in 9ₓ19㎜

View attachment 2028143
Retro-neat. Runs on inexpensive ammo. Can be suppressed easily. SBRing it would just be Form 1 filing, engrave, buy a real stock. If I had my druthers, this would be the one. Alas, sold out, and no idea if ever returning.

Option Two: vz. 61 Pistol in 9ₓ17㎜
View attachment 2028160
I already have on in 7.65ₓ17㎜SR Br / .32 ACP and it is, easily, one of my favorite carbines. (My better half really likes that one too.) SBRing would be Form 1, engrave, buy backplate and stock, and done. Easy to suppress. Is in stock right now, though if history is any guide, I need to move on it sooner rather than later; Czechpoint USA is notorious for guns and parts coming in in fits and starts from Europa.

A couple honorable / wacky mentions are DD projects (here and here) I'm considering, though the cost would be significantly more and the work on one is beyond my home gunsmithing abilities. (The USAS is almost certainly a no-go, for various factors. And I haven't really started beating the brush on builders who could make the .577 beast yet, so don't know if it is realistic or pie in the sky.)

Anywho, what say you on this freezing January afternoon?

I have been eyeing a VZ61 to SBR. So cool looking. If you do it though, it has to be in .32acp. The 380 mags just look stupid in it.
I just don;t need to add another caliber right now.

 

[CountryGent]

I would just sign up for the in stock notifications and be ready to swipe your card when you get the notice.

I did indeed sign up to be notified.

 

[MTpockets]

Lemme know if you end up going with the DOE or an M231. I know a guy who can install portholes in your rigs.

Here is an example of some of his work...

One captured of him prepping the glass...

Sorry... had to... it has been a slow Wednesday.

 

[MikeInOr]

This is the direction I went



It has a binary trigger on it. I am quite pleased with it. I like the smallish size.

 

[bradsteen]

Much as I want to upvote the Vz61, the USAS-12 DD route is a clear winner IMO.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

So, I kind of have a hankering to do another Form 1 build. A couple that come to mind are:

Option One: H&R Retro DOE in 9ₓ19㎜

View attachment 2028143
Retro-neat. Runs on inexpensive ammo. Can be suppressed easily. SBRing it would just be Form 1 filing, engrave, buy a real stock. If I had my druthers, this would be the one. Alas, sold out, and no idea if ever returning.

Option Two: vz. 61 Pistol in 9ₓ17㎜
View attachment 2028160
I already have one in 7.65ₓ17㎜SR Br / .32 ACP and it is, easily, one of my favorite carbines. (My better half really likes that one too.) SBRing would be Form 1, engrave, buy backplate and stock, and done. Easy to suppress. Is in stock right now, though if history is any guide, I need to move on it sooner rather than later; Czechpoint USA is notorious for guns and parts coming in in fits and starts from Europa.

A couple honorable / wacky mentions are DD projects (here and here) I'm considering, though the cost would be significantly more and the work on one is beyond my home gunsmithing abilities. (The USAS is almost certainly a no-go, for various factors. And I haven't really started beating the brush on builders who could make the .577 beast yet, so don't know if it is realistic or pie in the sky.)

Anywho, what say you on this freezing January afternoon?

Both are interesting guns. I would go for the Vz if it were me cuz it's more interesting and smaller. Likely much less recoil too. Bonus of likely easy to bump fire from what I've seen on videos. I've watched videos on them in 32 acp and was really low recoil but haven't watched any .380 ones. Edit: I recall now I watched John Hickok45 bump firing a .380 one. That new $580 one by Titus (sp?) tactical looks cool except for the plastic receiver. I like how it takes the folding wire stock. Such a tiny package.

Personally I don't like the recoil of AR 9s and the OAL that the buffer requires. I sold the one I had it was too harsh for my taste. Compared to mp5 and other delayed blowback guns like mpx, Stribog, and scorpion with aftermarket bearing delay the shooting experience is so different and that's what makes them so fun. But with all these it comes down to personal preference and that varies person to person.

 

[orygun]

I voted something else, but of the two, Option One would get the nod.
I'd prefer something like Option One, but in 5.56.

 

[CountryGent]

@bradsteen Thanks for the thoughts. USAS-12 has some logistic issues, but I hear you as is very neato. (If I had my silly wish with one of the four, it would be the gonzo DD .577 revolver idea. Alas, this project is somewhat elusive in the mind presently.)

@ilikegunspdx Roger-dodger. Was hoping you'd opine as I greatly respect your views and know you are hip to these kind of guns. I'd be most certainly down to another vz61.

@orygun Thanks. I have a little suppressed/SBR CAR-15 clone in 5.56㎜ already; with that and M16A1 type rifle, this enough of the .223 zippers for my taste. But I get what you are saying.

Thank you, friends.

 

[CountryGent]

Checking out the magazine situation, looks like the lil' DOE AR has several options on PSA's site. Czechpoint, however, only appears to have one:

Wouldn't need many though. Appears backplate and stocks still available on CZ site. So, leaning vz61, I reckon. Will circle back tomorrow.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

FYI this may not be applicable to your plans at all but one thing I noticed in re-watching the Hickok45 suppressed vz61 video is the amount of gas coming out the top and buildup of crud causing malfunctions when shooting suppressed with conventional can. So if planning on using a suppressor it might be worth while to explore using a flow through can. Zero experience with this gun personally just passing along what I saw on the video.

My only somewhat related experience is that I have had no issues with gas or additional buildup due to suppressor when shooting a flow through can (Huxwrx rad 9) on mp5 and mp5k clones. Those are known to have malfunctions and very fast dirt buildup when using conventional suppressors.

 

[CountryGent]

One thing I noticed with our .32 ACP vz61 SBR is that it gets funky fast when shooting suppressed. Nothing a good cleaning doesn't take care of, but it is to the level that it is really noticeable.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

FYI I just watched a video on the doe gun that came up on another thread. It looked exactly as I expected. The recoil is a lot higher than 5.56 like all ar9s that don't have a delay system (Fe cmmg is radial delay). Compare that to roller delayed which is like a mouse fart recoil. Doe had the standard big ar9 bolt which is where a lot of the harshness comes from as all that mass slams home. Different than ar10 or ar15 light weight locking bolt. It had a standard ar15 buffer. Sure looks cool though. Just fyi, had never seen it shot before.

 

[CountryGent]

Another one that would be interesting, but I don't know about the logistics would be recreating the rare Beretta 92SBW:



From what I've read, 27 were made for the LAPD. They are semi-automatic only, but use the Beretta 93R stock. If the stocks could be sourced, I can't imagine the machining work would be a yuge deal.

Thoughts?

 

[ilikegunspdx]

I don't know anything about the beretta unfortunately but it reminds me of the pm 63. I'm told these are extremely unreliable due to conversion to semi auto which is too bad cuz they sure look neat.

Polish PM-63 "Rak" machine pistol

The Polish PM63 machine pistol was an early PDW designed for vehicle crewmen and other non-infantry personnel. It was well made and effective within its limits.

www.forgottenweapons.com

For me I just use this on any gun. Works excellent on any med to full sized gun. It's for functionality though of course not for making a neat looking gun. Works excellent. Tube diameter is standard so can swap out the brace for others or stocks if sbr. It basically adds a brace or stock (sbr) to any pistol/sbr you like. No attachment to the gun other than your grip.

366DF645-9512-413E-BCBD-F041796B20E2.jpeg

• ilikegunspdx
• May 14, 2023

IMG_9525.jpeg

• ilikegunspdx
• Sep 4, 2024

Also if sites spectre mags weren't so unreliable that would be a killer gun with a stock attached (stock needs to be thin to keep with thin profile/design of the gun imo).

 

[CountryGent]

I haven't dug real deep, but I'm not turning a source on Beretta 93R stocks as of yet. Most of the hits are for "airsoft", which is something I'm entirely sure what it is, beyond not being a real firearm. There are none still active, but Gunbroker is telling me that parts kits were at some point a thing though.

To bad on the PM—63 as that would be a unique build.

 

[Aero Denezol]

I SBR'd a DOE a couple of years ago and it has a nice punch and satifying report unlike most PCCs which (to me) feel not a lot different from a 22. The DOE gun is also accurate. I don't know how to explain exactly, but it just feels good in-hand. I love this gun.

I have a Vz.61 in .32 and although it sounds like you enjoy yours, I would not buy one again. The sights are terrible. I did SBR and add the wire stock, but this is really more of a handgun IMO. Novelty/range toy.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

I have been eyeing a VZ61 to SBR. So cool looking. If you do it though, it has to be in .32acp. The 380 mags just look stupid in it.
I just don;t need to add another caliber right now.

I also prefer the look of the 32 mags. Both .380 and .32 are cool guns though.

IMG_2193.jpeg

• ilikegunspdx
• Jan 4, 2025

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Just for fun sites spectre with stock folded


Unfolded