HVAC Business Practices

[Spitpatch]

Recent experience may be valuable to others (now or in the future if HVAC services are needed):

My system is a two-unit one. Furnace downstairs in the basement, Heat Pump/AC unit outside. Installed 16 years ago. Absolutely trouble free since.

A/C unit crapped out last week (just before the heat spell). Got on the webbernet for local HVAC outfits, found one that I had come inspect the system a few years ago, called 'em up, set up an appointment for diagnosis (for $150 fee, of course). The rest of the system (furnace, etc.) ran fine.

Field Tech came out, younger guy, did not seem overly confident about his testing procedures. Diagnosed that "Compressor is worn out". While he worked, he explained at least once that repair of a system 16 years old (the "longevity average") is usually not cost-effective. When asked about price of a whole new system, advised "Ten to Thirty thousand dollars". (16 years ago, the system cost $6900 and rebates/credits got it below $4K). I was shocked.

He advised the office would be in touch with an estimate for a repair, and to arrange for a visit from their guy to quote a new system appropriate for my house.

Meantime, I got back on the webbernet regarding HVAC stuff, and at the top of "frequently asked questions" was, "What is the $5000 rule?" The answer is that repairs of over $5K are usually "not cost effective, and a new system is probably indicated."

My Spidey Sense was tingling.

Almost at that moment, I got notification of email from the HVAC outfit with my repair quote. Quite eerily (or otherwise), the amount was $5400. Hmmm.

Their Sales Rep came out that afternoon, did his song and dance, and I advised him twice that I was starting to "figure out how you guys operate". I did tell him that I would be seeking other quotes, etc. He quoted me $14,600 for a completely new system, strongly advised this was economically the best decision, offered "interest free payments", etc.

Enter HVAC Company Number Two: Tech came out (actually the Service Manager of that outfit: they were short-handed), discovered that Tech #1 had crossed wires on the Capacitor when he put stuff back, Inspected and tested the entire system, diagnosed a bad Capacitor, did not have the standard one on his truck but had a better one for not much more money. Slapped it in, and as he put it, "Everything checks out and she's purrin' like a kitten. You have taken good care of this system and it should last another 16 years with the same care."

Five hundred sixty six bucks. (Which included the Diagnostic Fee). He was here a little over an hour.

Be advised. No charge for this service, Drive Safely.

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[Mark W.]

Its like that everywhere. Les Schwab quoted my daughter 2800.00 to do tge brakes on her jeep. I replaced the pads (all it needed I took brake class when I took auto tech at PCC) which was all it needed. The rotors had minimal wear the calipers were working fine. I did the front axle for $155.00

 

[nwslopoke]

Its like that everywhere. Les Schwab quoted my daughter 2800.00 to do tge brakes on her jeep. I replaced the pads (all it needed I took brake class when I took auto tech at PCC) which was all it needed. The rotors had minimal wear the calipers were working fine. I did the front axle for $155.00

LS likes to use the brake kits where the calipers and all are pre built. I had them do mine under warranty so I didn't care so much about the cost.

It's a shame that either policy or skill level kills certain industries or jobs.

Last year I had to replace my 20yo HVAC. It was undersized to begin with. I originally got quotes $15-18k. Spent just under $12k through Home Depot.

One issue was even the higher quotes were for units I've never heard of. People had told me pre Covid a replacement system was closer to $8k. Life can be a real kick in the nuts sometimes. Just under 1 year ago I did a 2 wk trip to Europe, paid off the HVAC then got laid off work. Last August was wild for me .

 

[Belial]

Always have another tech look at things....Every Tech will want to do something different. I always check the CAP's first thing and actually keep an extra on hand since they are really cheap.

ETA Equipment has more than doubled in cost since Covid years and in some cases 3 times over depending on how fancy you want to get.

 

[Lilhigbee]

Recent experience may be valuable to others (now or in the future if HVAC services are needed):

My system is a two-unit one. Furnace downstairs in the basement, Heat Pump/AC unit outside. Installed 16 years ago. Absolutely trouble free since.

A/C unit crapped out last week (just before the heat spell). Got on the webbernet for local HVAC outfits, found one that I had come inspect the system a few years ago, called 'em up, set up an appointment for diagnosis (for $150 fee, of course). The rest of the system (furnace, etc.) ran fine.

Field Tech came out, younger guy, did not seem overly confident about his testing procedures. Diagnosed that "Compressor is worn out". While he worked, he explained at least once that repair of a system 16 years old (the "longevity average") is usually not cost-effective. When asked about price of a whole new system, advised "Ten to Thirty thousand dollars". (16 years ago, the system cost $6900 and rebates/credits got it below $4K). I was shocked.

He advised the office would be in touch with an estimate for a repair, and to arrange for a visit from their guy to quote a new system appropriate for my house.

Meantime, I got back on the webbernet regarding HVAC stuff, and at the top of "frequently asked questions" was, "What is the $5000 rule?" The answer is that repairs of over $5K are usually "not cost effective, and a new system is probably indicated."

My Spidey Sense was tingling.

Almost at that moment, I got notification of email from the HVAC outfit with my repair quote. Quite eerily (or otherwise), the amount was $5400. Hmmm.

Their Sales Rep came out that afternoon, did his song and dance, and I advised him twice that I was starting to "figure out how you guys operate". I did tell him that I would be seeking other quotes, etc. He quoted me $14,600 for a completely new system, strongly advised this was economically the best decision, offered "interest free payments", etc.

Enter HVAC Company Number Two: Tech came out (actually the Service Manager of that outfit: they were short-handed), discovered that Tech #1 had crossed wires on the Capacitor when he put stuff back, Inspected and tested the entire system, diagnosed a bad Capacitor, did not have the standard one on his truck but had a better one for not much more money. Slapped it in, and as he put it, "Everything checks out and she's purrin' like a kitten. You have taken good care of this system and it should last another 16 years with the same care."

Five hundred sixty six bucks. (Which included the Diagnostic Fee). He was here a little over an hour.

Be advised. No charge for this service, Drive Safely.

Name them and shame them right here!! This goes on because too many people don't know what it really takes to fix something and there are lots of companies happy to take advantage of them.
Likewise a shout--out to the honest company that fixed it.
We've always used Petra Heating and Cooling for work at our rentals. Always diagnosed and fixed accurately and promptly and priced fairly.
I replaced the capacitor on our home unit last year. $17 from Amazon and about fifteen minutes to change it. took longer to find my voltmeter to test it than it did to replace it.

 

[Joe13]

pretty much every trade is struggling to find 'good' employees…

I went to a service call where a newer tech walked in, looked at the issue and told them there was nothing he could do.

I get to go out there as a go back call for free and I fixed the problem in under 5 minutes and got a tour of their new football den/bar/TV room.

I'm not saying there aren't better or worse companies but unfortunately incompetence is rampant these days.

Just my 2¢

 

[Spitpatch]

Its like that everywhere. Les Schwab quoted my daughter 2800.00 to do tge brakes on her jeep. I replaced the pads (all it needed I took brake class when I took auto tech at PCC) which was all it needed. The rotors had minimal wear the calipers were working fine. I did the front axle for $155.00

I'm pretty fair on car repairs, and have a good honest mechanic that I pay well for the stuff I choose not to do. I know nothing about HVAC but I watched that Capacitor go in and out of the Heat Pump twice, and it looks pretty well plug and play, I might go with @Lilhigbee 's and @Belial advice and stash wunna dem buggers.

Always have another tech look at things....Every Tech will want to do something different. I always check the CAP's first thing and actually keep an extra on hand since they are really cheap.

ETA Equipment has more than doubled in cost since Covid years and in some cases 3 times over depending on how fancy you want to get.

Yup. the second HVAC "frequently asked question" on the webbernet was about getting a second opinion (actually recommended 3-5, but the diagnostic fees would have killed me, and I figure I got damn lucky on #2.)

As to naming the outfits, I have sent thanks and kudos to the heroes, but I got the distinct impression that this sort of method by the first outfit is very probably industy-wide. My busting their chops wont have any effect on a bad actor that already operates that way, and thinks they have to in order to survive.

If someone wants a recommendation for an HVAC outfit that treated me right, that would be "Best Owner Direct HVAC and Electrical". Cornelius.

Side anecdote: Gun buddy was here showing me the new engine on his Harley when the 2nd tech showed up. I'd told him about the 5400 or 14K choices. When the guy charged me $566, gun buddy said, "Hillsboro Antique show is next weekend. What are we gunna spend that extra five thousand dollars on?"

He's always helpful with such things.

 

[GrayGoose]

I always check the CAP's first thing and actually keep an extra on hand since they are really cheap.

Starting capacitors are cheap and readily available. They internally dry out over time, whether in use or stored as a spare part, so you're probably not gaining anything by buying extras.

 

[Catbox]

For those reasons exactly, I am glad I spent over a decade as a HVAC service guy.
I used to be the second opinion guy quite a lot as fixing them and making a customer is far more valuable than a one and done.

 

[Spitpatch]

Starting capacitors are cheap and readily available. They internally dry out over time, whether in use or stored as a spare part, so you're probably not gaining anything by buying extras.

My education continues, it would seem. Thanks for that.

 

[Mark W.]

Completely off track but our house is way different 95% of our heat comes from the 120 bags of wood pellets and for cooling we use a wall mounted Window unit in the living room which keeps the living room and the kitchen comfortable. Then up stairs we have a pair of portable units one in each bed room used as needed. So rarely both at the same time. In the cooling season the electric bill is maybe $100 more then winter.

 

[Belial]

Starting capacitors are cheap and readily available. They internally dry out over time, whether in use or stored as a spare part, so you're probably not gaining anything by buying extras.

Tell that to my neighbor who's unit is still going strong with my old spare. For the low cost I have and will continue to take my chances.

 

[Spitpatch]

pretty much every trade is struggling to find 'good' employees…

I went to a service call where a newer tech walked in, looked at the issue and told them there was nothing he could do.

I get to go out there as a go back call for free and I fixed the problem in under 5 minutes and got a tour of their new football den/bar/TV room.

I'm not saying there aren't better or worse companies but unfortunately incompetence is rampant these days.

Just my 2¢

I share this observation more and more frequently. But again, this was a formulated method, part of which was the Technician beginning the process of funneling the customer into buying a new system. Worse yet, it was a formulated system that even I (as ignorant of HVAC) could see through almost immediately.

He even noted wear and tear on the housing (sheet metal, plastic) of the heat pump unit, and I think I heard my own voice noting scratches on the wood and a non-original rear sight in an attempt to save myself 50 bucks on a gun.

 

[Old John]

Last Summer my friend and neighbor had a maintenance done on his HVAC system. (Gas heat and AC) The tech told him the furnace had a bad heat exchanger and red tagged it. (disabled it)
He also said the AC compressor was getting weak.
I am not a furnace guy, but I suggested he call the Trane Dealer as its heat exchanger has a lifetime warranty. They came out and could find nothing wrong.
On to the AC. I am a retired refrigeration guy. Know a little, but not a lot about home AC. I went over and checked the split between supply and return air. It was 23 degrees. Way better than I would have expected with any unit.
Both are running fine a year later.
I believe that the Company is honest, but the Tech was looking for a big commision!

 

[CougarMtn]

I'm not a HVAC tech, but try hard to keep our 3 ton system maintained. Almost 30 years old. Keep the coils and filters clean. Also I pre-emptively change out the contactors and capacitor every few years. Trying to save the stress on the compressor and fan motors. The price of the new units are scary expensive, and not built to last more then 10-15 years.

Any recommendations on a reputable manufacturer (for when my time comes)?

 

[P7M13]

Last Summer my friend and neighbor had a maintenance done on his HVAC system. (Gas heat and AC) The tech told him the furnace had a bad heat exchanger and red tagged it. (disabled it)
He also said the AC compressor was getting weak.
I am not a furnace guy, but I suggested he call the Trane Dealer as its heat exchanger has a lifetime warranty. They came out and could find nothing wrong.
On to the AC. I am a retired refrigeration guy. Know a little, but not a lot about home AC. I went over and checked the split between supply and return air. It was 23 degrees. Way better than I would have expected with any unit.
Both are running fine a year later.
I believe that the Company is honest, but the Tech was looking for a big commision!

Right out of college, there were no jobs in my field of study. I had a fair amount of electrical and furnace experience by then, so applied at a HVAC company. In the interview, it was pretty apparent that their name should have been "Dewy Cheatem and Howe." I passed on their offer.

 

[OrPackrat]

Brakes for my wife's car, would have cost over 300 for a single axle being down, I have the special tools, did it in under an hour for under $50.

Just bought some new struts for my car, should take and hour or so im guessing. Given the rate for auto repairs, I'm happy to research and do it all myself...

Next year im probably going to install a mini-split, I have a spare vacuum pump, got a good tutorial online, figure I can put in a decent system for under 1k.

My friend, I do the oil changes and maintenance for his Excavator, little research and just doing it.

Earlier this year, a blower went out for a furnace, we got a new motor, disassembled the whole system, where needed, and rebuilt it ourselves, saved several thousand easily and now we got tools to help for the next one..

 

[jbett98]

A friend of mine who just retired from commercial HVAC repair recommended a hard start capacitor that he hooked up to the main compressor side of the start capacitor.
It gives the compressor a little boost when kicking in. Really quieted the unit down, as It's just outside my bedroom.
Only cost $18.00 on Amazon. Super simple to install.

 

[Catbox]

Any recommendations on a reputable manufacturer (for when my time comes)?

I was a Carrier / Bryant guy.
That was what the company I worked for at the time was using.
Carrier invented air conditioning and Bryant invented the furnace.

My units have been functioning quite well for the last 25 years I have had them.

 

[gmerkt]

HVAC, plumbers, and septic companies, you have to get multiple evaluations/estimates to have a fair chance of not getting screwed. A few times I've been amazed at how far apart they can be on their estimates. When I had a heat pump system installed in 2019, the guys with the newest trucks having the fanciest ad wraps on them came in with an estimate $6K higher than the contractors I eventually hired. Who drove beat-up, older, plain white trucks. But they'd been in business since 1946.