How is this legal?

[Will_White]

Nice piece Andy. Just one particular short barrel shotgun that isn't marketed to someone looking for black powder is the only thing I've got trouble with.

It's the black powder shotgun for black rifle enthusiasts, nothing illegal and nothing that needs to be regulated anymore.

It's like bath salts marked 'do not eat' <wink wink>, and cartoon characters marketing vape to kids. They'll say that's not what it is, but candy flavored poison marketed by a cartoon animal is targeting kids no matter what they say.

Just because someone is an adult doesn't mean they don't like tuttii frutti douchey fluteys. I used to smoke grape swishers.

If you can't see who this murder weapon is marketed to, then I've got no faith in the younger generations.

You keep calling it a murder weapon, I would bet that this weapon has been used in less then 5 shootings ever.

 

[trukinbear]

This is exactly why we're going to loose, without knowing me, or about me someone judges me to be not pure enough - really you think I hate freedom? That's an easy way to belittle me, and discount many decades of experience, activism, and public service. I've been honored twice, and spoken twice at the national convention by the NRA, I've testified before Congress, and was the personal guest at the RNC of a major presidential candidate. Go ahead and discount me, obviously I hate freedom (based on no evidence). No, we're going to loose because nobody is going to be pure enough. We agree on 99.9%, but of course based on a single thread about something it's painfully obvious you don't understand - I hate freedom. Of course a senior citizen such as myself is absolutely useless - who needs to hear from experience from someone for whom guns aren't some special toy. I've been shot, three times...and it farkin' hurts. Okay well maybe that particular weapon that is in that photograph maybe it hasn't been used in any murders but I investigated several dozen murders they were committed with these sawed-off shotguns the last kid killed a liquor store owner and his wife didn't even rob the place just for initiation so he can join the gang. You know what this thing does to someone's chest? Or course you don't, and you have no idea how hard it is to call someone survivor and tell them that their loved one has been killed in a senseless (or any) manner. Just delete me obviously I have nothing important to say your choice of advertisements going to get rid of me anyway.

 

[Alexx1401]

It's the black powder shotgun for black rifle enthusiasts, nothing illegal and nothing that needs to be regulated anymore.

Just because someone is an adult doesn't mean they don't like tuttii frutti douchey fluteys. I used to smoke grape swishers.

You keep calling it a murder weapon, I would bet that this weapon has been used in less then 5 shootings ever.

Here you have someone who is going to argue only for the point of arguing. Criminal scum could care less about being able to buy something like this my mail. They don't need to. They can buy any gun they want any time they want and don't have to pay attention to laws. NO ONE is buying something like this to commit crimes. If they are going to commit crimes its not like they are planning to obey "gun laws". I am starting to wonder is the one who is so butthurt about these still buys those X-Ray glasses and sea monkeys we used to see advertised in back of comic books

 

[trukinbear]

Here you have someone who is going to argue only for the point of arguing. Criminal scum could care less about being able to buy something like this my mail. They don't need to. They can buy any gun they want any time they want and don't have to pay attention to laws. NO ONE is buying something like this to commit crimes. If they are going to commit crimes its not like they are planning to obey "gun laws". I am starting to wonder is the one who is so butthurt about these still buys those X-Ray glasses and sea monkeys we used to see advertised in back of comic books

Well, I will indeed argue that I don't hate freedom. Y'all are nieve enough to think that a prosecutor gives a flip about your rights, and a bunch of other odd things about your rights. I would expect nothing less from a bunch of comfortable lower middle class gun enthusiast. Of course you've never experienced the criminal justice system, or even had people shooting at you on a regular basis, so I'm not surprised, but I am indeed miffed to be told I obviously hate freedom... Which is of course why I was a Marine, hate freedom - of course. Maybe I'm out of place in a group of comfy people with fancy guns as toys, but you wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes in my world. So go - proclaim it from hill to hill - obviously I hate freedom. (What a bunch of jerks)

 

[Nosferatu]

without knowing me, or about me someone judges me

would expect nothing less from a bunch of comfortable lower middle class gun enthusiast. Of course you've never experienced the criminal justice system, or even had people shooting at you on a regular basis,

You're talking out both sides of your bubblegum.

As someone who grew up in the ghetto with ganbangers you have been yammering about, I've never seen anyone with a BP gun in the hood. We wouldn't have had the foggiest idea how to use the damn thing.

you wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes in my world.

You'd be surprised. Lots of people on this forum have endured a lot more than you think. Just because they don't brag about it, doesn't make you any better.

 

[trukinbear]

I'm not any better than anyone and I've never thought that I was. I'm just pointing out that our points of you are quite a bit different and if you want to discount my experience I don't have to share it. I wasn't bragging I was pointing out how stupid it is of someone to say that I hate freedom. Nobody's pure enough isn't that rich

 

[trukinbear]

Oh and it's obvious if someone thinks that a prosecuting attorney is a bad prosecuting attorney because he doesn't care about their rights that they have no real experience - all they EVER care about is a conviction. I HATE FREEDOM - THAT'S HILARIOUS.

 

[Nosferatu]

I'm positive you enjoy YOUR freedom. I'm not convinced you revere anyone else's freedom though.

 

[Will_White]

This is exactly why we're going to loose, without knowing me, or about me someone judges me to be not pure enough - really you think I hate freedom? That's an easy way to belittle me, and discount many decades of experience, activism, and public service. I've been honored twice, and spoken twice at the national convention by the NRA, I've testified before Congress, and was the personal guest at the RNC of a major presidential candidate. Go ahead and discount me, obviously I hate freedom (based on no evidence). No, we're going to loose because nobody is going to be pure enough. We agree on 99.9%, but of course based on a single thread about something it's painfully obvious you don't understand - I hate freedom. Of course a senior citizen such as myself is absolutely useless - who needs to hear from experience from someone for whom guns aren't some special toy. I've been shot, three times...and it farkin' hurts. Okay well maybe that particular weapon that is in that photograph maybe it hasn't been used in any murders but I investigated several dozen murders they were committed with these sawed-off shotguns the last kid killed a liquor store owner and his wife didn't even rob the place just for initiation so he can join the gang. You know what this thing does to someone's chest? Or course you don't, and you have no idea how hard it is to call someone survivor and tell them that their loved one has been killed in a senseless (or any) manner. Just delete me obviously I have nothing important to say your choice of advertisements going to get rid of me anyway.

Who said that you hate freedom? I haven't, I have said you're falling into the common trap of law enforcement of "Criminals use these so only Criminals use these." I have no doubt you've seen some crap, but the gangbangers didn't use one of these and even if there was a scourge of gang violence using legally purchased short barrel black powder shotguns that's a gang problem (and a poverty/ incentives problem) not a gun problem

You're painting yourself as a victim, you're not. You're just misinformed and prejudiced, that's fine everyone starts somewhere, but admit when you're wrong and learn from it.

 

[harryspocket80]

its not that's for sure

 

[Andy54Hawken]

its not that's for sure

It is legal.
It is a muzzle loading firearm....using black powder.
The breech opens , so you can prime the gun with percussion caps or 209 primers.

While it looks a bit like classic side x side , breech loading , self contained , metallic cartridge gun ...It ain't.
It is a muzzle loader.

Muzzle loaders , for the moment ...are exempt from most FFL rules , NFA requirements , etc....
I say most.because every state is different.

Andy

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

 

[1775usmc]

its not that's for sure

It is though.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

A sawn off shotgun was used in a crime...so what....?

You can drown in water...does that mean we shouldn't drink water....?
You can burn your neighbor's house down with fire...or cook your dinner with that same fire...
Should we eat our supper raw...?

Blaming the firearm for crimes committed by criminals....is ....stupid.
A firearm can't do a damn thing by itself ...unless it is a SIG P320 or certain vintages of the Remington 700....
Criminals...commit crimes...that is where the focus should be...not on whatever that was used during the commission of crimes.

Saying a firearm is used by criminals...is a dramatic statement...but again it is also a.... so what...?
Of course firearms are used by criminals...that don't mean that no one else shouldn't use them..or not own whatever firearms they wish.

Andy

 

[Jeepsnguns]

.

 

[1775usmc]

Just goes to show the amount of knowledge that LEOs have in regards to gun laws and the NFA.

And they will argue with you until they are blue in the face even though the facts are stacked against them.

Facts over feelings…. Or something like that.

 

[trukinbear]

All apologies, apparently I do suffer from PTSD - I thought it missed me.

 

[Unka-Boo]

All apologies, apparently I do suffer from PTSD - I thought it missed me.

Random observation from anonymous internet dood....

You show a skewed view from a career dealing with the worst in society...the "us v them" mentality comes through. Now, mind you, thats what I'm picking up from just reading this thread...not like we know each other from Adam....
I get where your position comes from, but guess what, 99.9% of us out there aren't like that.
As Andy has repeated ad nauseum...it's the actor, not the tool, why should we suffer for someone elses misdeeds?
In the end, you seemed wrapped up in a hatred for something you see representing the worst people...well, that chunk of metal doesnt magically make serial killers, sometimes stupid usless stuff just makes you smile...and maybe cough from all the smoke...

 

[Andy54Hawken]

All apologies, apparently I do suffer from PTSD - I thought it missed me.

Since trauma affects everyone differently....
I would suggest that you learn to "read yourself"....learn the warning signs of a PTSD attack / episode ...
Do what you can , in order to mitigate it.

While we are made up of all* the experiences of our past...
Our past does not need to define us in the present or our future.
We can choose just how we act or react to something.

* The good , the bad , the indifferent...etc...all of these make up who we are...
Take any one away...and that would make you a different person altogether.

I would also suggest ...
Obtaining a level of self acceptance ....learn ways to be at peace with yourself...
With what you have done..as well as what was done to you.

Make your PTSD work for you not against you.

For example...and speaking only for myself...
I now no longer constantly scan terrain features , buildings and the like ...
Searching for ambush sites , avenues of approach , deciding on where to place a MG , etc....

I still do have a high level of situational awareness...and the above does play a role in that...
However I am no longer in a constant Combat readiness mode.
I can still do the above...but at a more healthier / realistic / sustainable level.

That said...
The smell of burning meat...still gotta remind myself of where I am at.

Again...
Learning of oneself....and acceptance of oneself and one's own actions....is key ...at least for me.

Andy

Edit to add....
Please note that the above is not telling anyone what to do...
Just tossing out some things to consider...and hope that they are helpful.

 

[bradsteen]

All apologies, apparently I do suffer from PTSD - I thought it missed me.

From what you've shared of your experiences, I'd be surprised if you didn't. Some folks get a front row seat to the "how f@cked up humans can be to each other" show. I'm glad you recognize it for what it is, and hope you take advantage of the support systems out there to help manage it.