Idaho Fire arms trust and death?

[wired]

Note: also has a suppressor.

So I'm simply circling back to my theory posted above. The decedent had filed individually, and was approved in the past.

Was in the process to flip them onto a trust after January...

If thats the case, which I doubt, its transferrable on a form 5 free anyway.

 

[Camelfilter]

Unless he personally made both of them.

Anything is possible.

I find such less likely though. -That the best friend wouldn't know that, then posit on here...

 

[wired]

Whenever these come up is always some fishy story with 1/3 the back story . Having a suppressor is immaterial. That has zero to do with what sounds like an unregistered SBR

 

[Camelfilter]

If thats the case, which I doubt, its transferrable on a form 5 free anyway.

Yup.

Lotsa newer to NFA stuff folks since the electronic swift approvals & braced pistol anmesty.

Spouse doesn't know NFA workings, nor the OP.

Pretty decent question, answered a few times allready.

 

[Camelfilter]

Whenever these come up is always some fishy story with 1/3 the back story . Having a suppressor is immaterial. That has zero to do with what sounds like an unregistered SBR

Well, they will find out soon enough...

 

[spookshack]

Well, they will find out soon enough...

Yes, soon enough…..

 

[Cota]

Hey guys thanks so much for all your input. I'll contact his widow to try and figure out the timing with the stamps vs trust. She may not know.
Another question, if she doesn't want to keep ether then she'll just have to turn them in?
There is no way she can legally sell them to get some funds back?
Thanks again.

 

[wired]

Hey guys thanks so much for all your input. I'll contact his widow to try and figure out the timing with the stamps vs trust. She may not know.
Another question, if she doesn't want to keep ether then she'll just have to turn them in?
There is no way she can legally sell them to get some funds back?
Thanks again.

She can sell the lower part of the SBR and she can sell the upper part. She cant sell them together if its not registered. The silencer she can sell if its registered. If its a factory silencer it HAS TO BE. No way to get one without paperwork. If its home made .eh, maybe not.

 

[Camelfilter]

Hey guys thanks so much for all your input. I'll contact his widow to try and figure out the timing with the stamps vs trust. She may not know.
Another question, if she doesn't want to keep ether then she'll just have to turn them in?
There is no way she can legally sell them to get some funds back?
Thanks again.

If she doesn't want to keep them, all she need do is just file for the transfers & wait for her approvals.

Then she can sell them.

With the upcoming $0 tax stamps, she may hit that market all rite.

 

[Cota]

OK, The trust was opened in 2023. He assembled the SBR applied for and paid for his stamp in 24, purchased the suppressor in 24, applied for and paid for the stamp in 2024 , but died before putting them in the trust or signing it. FYI thats about the time his illness took over.
Sounds like she is not interested in keeping ether item or trying very hard to recoup money.
Sounds like she maybe able to sell the upper, but not the lower since its registered as an SBR needs to be turned in along with the suppressor.
Thats all I know so far. Thanks again for everyone's help. Just trying to her her out.

 

[wired]

OK, The trust was opened in 2023. He assembled the SBR applied for and paid for his stamp in 24, purchased the suppressor in 24, applied for and paid for the stamp in 2024 , but died before putting them in the trust or signing it. FYI thats about the time his illness took over.
Sounds like she is not interested in keeping ether item or trying very hard to recoup money.
Sounds like she maybe able to sell the upper, but not the lower since its registered as an SBR needs to be turned in along with the suppressor.
Thats all I know so far. Thanks again for everyone's help. Just trying to her her out.

You seem to be under the impression it has to be on a trust for some reason. The lower doesnt need anything. It doesnt need to be turned in. Take the upper off its just a lower. Not an SBR anymore., She can keep it, sell it , do whatever. The ATF doesnt need to be notified. It doesnt have to be on a trust to trranser to her.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

along with the suppressor.

Depending on which suppressor you would be throwing a couple hundred bucks in the trash! Look it up online, price it at 50% off and it will likely sell almost instantly

 

[jbett98]

When my friend died in 2008, he left his wife a couple of full auto machine guns and a suppressor.
The non revocable family trust &will stated that his wife was to inherit all his guns.
The ATF requested a death certificate and a copy of the will when she submitted the form 5's along with the gun trust papers.

 

[Cota]

I was under the impression that if a lower was registered as an SBR it was always considered an SBR.
Sounds like since nothing was put in the trust its actually better for her?
So she can take all three items down to her local FFL and put them up for sale?

 

[wired]

I was under the impression that if a lower was registered as an SBR it was always considered an SBR.
Sounds like since nothing was put in the trust its actually better for her?
So she can take all three items down to her local FFL and put them up for sale?

No. SBRs are only SBRs when the gun is in SBR configuration. A lower is just a lower unless it's a machine gun lower. You can sell or otherwise dispose of a registered SBR lower with no paperwork whatsoever as long as it isn't in full gun configuration. The ATF likes you to inform them so they can remove the gun from the registry but it's not a legal requirement. She has to get a form 5 tax free transfer done prior to disposing of the silencer .

 

[wired]

When my friend died in 2008, he left his wife a couple of full auto machine guns and a suppressor.
The non revocable family trust &will stated that his wife was to inherit all his guns.
The ATF requested a death certificate and a copy of the will when she submitted the form 5's along with the gun trust papers.

Not quite how it works. A form 5 isn't done for trusts. The trust owns the gun in perpetuity . No need for a transfer . Someone else just becomes the trustee as outlined in the trust documentation. No need to engage the ATF at all when the original trustee dies. If it was in a will and a trust then the original trustee did it wrong. You can't will someone something you don't own. Form 5s are for individually own items.

Some people like trusts. A lot of people like trusts. I cant stand them because of a couple of reasons. One of them being that trust beneficiaries and often trustees , have no idea what theyre supposed to do and trusts are often worded in such a way that theyre confusing at best. The correct procedure for a trust transfer is for the trust beneficiary to change the trustee language to make themselves the trustee per the trust instructions. Thats it. They become the trustee., The trust is a legal entity that owns the item in question. That doesnt change. No will, no death certificate, no informing the ATF at all.

 

[jbett98]

When my friend bought the two SMG's and a suppressor he put them in his name, not in a trust.
After he died, the problem with the way his will was worded and it bothered the ATF because he only mentioned "wife gets guns". It was too vague.
His Will was part of a Non Revocable Family Trust that had other people involved (myself included) that stated that all four would inherit in an equal division of property after she passed away.
The ATF wanted the four inheritors named in the Family Trust to sign a waiver stating that they would give up their interest in the three tax stamped items, so the wife could move them into a gun trust, which would allow her to exclude two of the inheritors named in her husbands will.
All this happened five years after he died, which complicated things with the ATF.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

No. SBRs are only SBRs when the gun is in SBR configuration. A lower is just a lower unless it's a machine gun lower. You can sell or otherwise dispose of a registered SBR lower with no paperwork whatsoever as long as it isn't in full gun configuration. The ATF likes you to inform them so they can remove the gun from the registry but it's not a legal requirement. She has to get a form 5 tax free transfer done prior to disposing of the silencer .

Who knew that Heisenberg made firearms

 

[wired]

Who knew that Heisenberg made firearms

Im uncertain what you mean.

 

[jbett98]

He bought them using form 4 tax stamps. In his will he gave them to his wife as part of their living family trust.
The ATF said his irrevocable will was too vague, they wanted his will to have been written like this; (wife is to inherit upon my death: (1) Thomson machine gun with serial # XYZ 123, (2) SWD-11/nine serial # abc321, (3) Bowers suppressor serial # yzx 567.)
She waited over five years before trying to apply to the ATF using form 5's and placing them into a gun trust.
The ATF then came up with a solution, have the four people who will inherit her assets after she passes, sign a waiver giving up all rights to the three items.
That allowed her to deal with them and that is how they were then placed in a gun trust.
There was other complications with his irrevocable will, which involved his two biological daughters which he had written out of his will.
They were not named in his will, and that opens a whole new can of worms, as his will can be contested by the daughters using an error of omissions clause.
Even they had to sign the waiver to make the ATF happy.