Final AR decision for newbies

[nwslopoke]

I went shooting with a couple somewhat new to guns. The husband was in the military but not a firearms guy. He has a shotgun and a pistol and was not an AR guy. I brought a few different setups, but like most guys under 50, you're going to get an AR.

We had "the talk", as well as bringing up local Oregon gun laws. While he admitted to be interested, I did encourage him to go ahead and get a lower sooner than later.

He offered he had an over inflated budget of $2K. I informed him not to say that out loud again. My question is, how to start with the rifle you'll eventually end up with?

I offered my favorite is a 14.5 mid legnth. 16" are boring even if it is A DD. 18 or 20" are nice but the shorter distances we have, they aren't the best "only rifle". But I left him with, mid length 14 5 or 16". $12-1300 max budget. I had 3 different optics and he liked the fixed 3x best for our location.

So again, the question is, what did you end up with as your best AR solution that you wished you started with? If I had my 14.5 first I would own a few less now.

Read More

 

[Mono1]

I went shooting with a couple somewhat new to guns. The husband was in the military but not a firearms guy. He has a shotgun and a pistol and was not an AR guy. I brought a few different setups, but like most guys under 50, you're going to get an AR.

We had "the talk", as well as bringing up local Oregon gun laws. While he admitted to be interested, I did encourage him to go ahead and get a lower sooner than later.

He offered he had an over inflated budget of $2K. I informed him not to say that out loud again. My question is, how to start with the rifle you'll eventually end up with?

I offered my favorite is a 14.5 mid legnth. 16" are boring even if it is A DD. 18 or 20" are nice but the shorter distances we have, they aren't the best "only rifle". But I left him with, mid length 14 5 or 16". $12-1300 max budget. I had 3 different optics and he liked the fixed 3x best for our location.

So again, the question is, what did you end up with as your best AR solution that you wished you started with? If I had my 14.5 first I would own a few less now.

It's a personal decision. But, for me, the more I trended toward accuracy after my first AR purchase.

The first AR was a cool-looking tactical thing with iron sights and a standard length barrel.

Over many years I have migrated towards heavy longer barrels, all have SSA-E triggers, good Scopes instead of red-dot type or "tactical" scopes.

For me, it's all about Accuracy. But that may not be true for others.

 

[Local Loader]

I went shooting with a couple somewhat new to guns. The husband was in the military but not a firearms guy. He has a shotgun and a pistol and was not an AR guy. I brought a few different setups, but like most guys under 50, you're going to get an AR.

We had "the talk", as well as bringing up local Oregon gun laws. While he admitted to be interested, I did encourage him to go ahead and get a lower sooner than later.

He offered he had an over inflated budget of $2K. I informed him not to say that out loud again. My question is, how to start with the rifle you'll eventually end up with?

I offered my favorite is a 14.5 mid legnth. 16" are boring even if it is A DD. 18 or 20" are nice but the shorter distances we have, they aren't the best "only rifle". But I left him with, mid length 14 5 or 16". $12-1300 max budget. I had 3 different optics and he liked the fixed 3x best for our location.

So again, the question is, what did you end up with as your best AR solution that you wished you started with? If I had my 14.5 first I would own a few less now.

I'd have to say that my goals to meet are accuracy, weight and recoil. Building one that meets all three doesn't have to be expensive like some I've seen and used. I built one for under $600 that does all three and hits targets at 300yds with only a 3-9 scope. Now that's not to say I haven't spent more on one, but not by much and it was for a 308/7.62 not 223/5.56, haven't spent more than $500 for custom building a 223/5.56 build, just have to find the good deals on the parts you want for both to keep costs down. If I knew than what I know now, I probably would have a few less than what I do but it was a learning experience and was worth it in the end, though I might have focused more on optics if I had a few less.

 

[nwslopoke]

Thanks for those replies. Actually for me, ultimate accuracy has become less of a personal factor because I have only shot relatively short distances. 200 or less. Usually under 100yds.

"Practicle" accuracy has been good for me so far. Reliability, weight and cost has played heavily in my selection. I know cost features more on when you purchased. I don't think I've been all in for over $1300 and as little as $800. No regrets.

 

[Koda]

The husband was in the military but not a firearms guy. He has a shotgun and a pistol and was not an AR guy. I brought a few different setups, but like most guys under 50, you're going to get an AR.

So hes not really into guns or ARs but you somehow managed to convince him to buy an AR? You get bonus points for that.

I would say if hes not really into it and just wants that one AR for the sake of his rights get a 16in carbine. He wouldnt have to worry about pistol brace legalities but the 16in is still easy to wield and long enough for better accuracy should he ever start getting the bug...

 

[Local Loader]

Thanks for those replies. Actually for me, ultimate accuracy has become less of a personal factor because I have only shot relatively short distances. 200 or less. Usually under 100yds.

"Practicle" accuracy has been good for me so far. Reliability, weight and cost has played heavily in my selection. I know cost features more on when you purchased. I don't think I've been all in for over $1300 and as little as $800. No regrets.

When you buy does help in the price but you can also checkout local shops to see what extra parts they maybe clearencing out that would otherwise go for 2 or 3 times the asking price, parts bins are a good source for finding parts they have a lot of that they are trying to get rid of to make space.

 

[nwslopoke]

So hes not really into guns or ARs but you somehow managed to convince him to buy an AR? You get bonus points for that.

I would say if hes not really into it and just wants that one AR for the sake of his rights get a 16in carbine. He wouldnt have to worry about pistol brace legalities but the 16in is still easy to wield and long enough for better accuracy should he ever start getting the bug...

Like myself, who went through a phase as a new shooter, after the shotgun and a few AKs, I aquired several ARs over the years. The final solution is what it is. The AR. But of course there's a solution within the solution.

I have 10.5 - 20s. Each in theory has a particular use for a particular scenario , but we all know which one we like best after $1000s in exploring. If we could only keep one.

 

[Member 45541]

So again, the question is, what did you end up with as your best AR solution that you wished you started with?

I keep wanting to respond to this and felt lazy to type it all out! I've had a good many over the years. High end to low end, factory, built to just assembled. They are tools to me. Most of them have been moved on so I can try other things. I just finished an assembly that very well might be my last! At my age, and having a disability, my fighting days are pretty much over. If the fight comes to me, it'll probably be over quick. If targets are over 100yds away, I'm already looking for a way out so, the super accurate rifle isn't all that important anymore. If my latest assembly functions well, it will become my go to and vehicle rifle. Pretty much a Plain Jane without all the doohickies my others have and had.

It is definitely a rabbit hole that goes deep sometimes!

 

[DirectDrive]

The problem with recommending a 14.5" to a n00b is that he/she has to immediately deal with NFA rules.
I would have recommended 16" mid gas.
They are not "boring".

ETA
A carbine gassed 16" would fit the "boring" moniker.

 

[ma96782]

If I were advising a beginner on an AR platform.

My advice would be to get the regular standard. Not some version that runs afoul of the ATF's tax requirements.

Oh, wait... that's all changing.

Aloha, Mark

PS.......But then in all honesty.
I don't own an AR with some fancy X trigger or a SBR.

 

[PiratePast40]

Don't forget the cost of an optic, ammunition, gun case, range bag, hearing protection, targets, and a place to comfortably shoot and train, Training and ammunition cost money as does finding a place where you can shoot without worrying about gang bangers and hillbillies showing up and shooting from behind you.

Remember, the barrel and trigger are probably the components that contribute most to accuracy and reliability. Something like Aero Precision, BCM or Spikes Tactical gives you an excellent base with which to work from.

Once you get into the mid range of quality, the brand doesn't really matter until you have enough experience and expertise to make it matter. That's the point at which you'll either start buying other rifles or improving what you have.

I disagree with the 14.5" starting point. IMO, it's enough to get you into the NFA with, IMO, few benefits. If you're going the SBR route, might as well go down to 11.5 or so and think about getting a suppressor. Again, my opinion and worth exactly what you're paying for it!

 

[nwslopoke]

I should have said my 14.5 is pinned & welded to the legal length so no NFA. However, it has a noticeable balance benefit to the 3 or 4 16" barreled rifles I have. Call me crazy. Even my wife prefers to shot it. I'll say, shoot one of those. She'll say, I like that one.

I built her a specific 16" lightweight AR with a red dot. But she likes the pinned & welded 14.5. My fun gun is the PSA 20" clone with the FN barrel. Unfortunately it's no more accurate than their standard PSA 20", so the pro-tip is save your money unless you're building a replica. But I fully enjoy it for what it is. To be fair, they are both accurate enough.

 

[nwslopoke]

Don't forget the cost of an optic, ammunition, gun case, range bag, hearing protection, targets, and a place to comfortably shoot and train, Training and ammunition cost money as does finding a place where you can shoot without worrying about gang bangers and hillbillies showing up and shooting from behind you.

Remember, the barrel and trigger are probably the components that contribute most to accuracy and reliability. Something like Aero Precision, BCM or Spikes Tactical gives you an excellent base with which to work from.

Once you get into the mid range of quality, the brand doesn't really matter until you have enough experience and expertise to make it matter. That's the point at which you'll either start buying other rifles or improving what you have.

I disagree with the 14.5" starting point. IMO, it's enough to get you into the NFA with, IMO, few benefits. If you're going the SBR route, might as well go down to 11.5 or so and think about getting a suppressor. Again, my opinion and worth exactly what you're paying for it!

I am basing my conversation on he's allowing upto $2k. I may have been all in around $800 including the 3X Nikon (no longer available new). The rifle was a built from scratch Brownells, PSA, Knights Armament parts. 90% of my rifles have some budget minded triggers but all better than stock.

My word to him was, he won't go wrong with a Daniel Defense but it's not necessary to own a good rifle. I was impressed by his approach to shooting. On his own he loaded single shots and built up his technique and distances over the day. He didn't try the mag dump school of thought you see some do, trying to look cool .

 

[2ndtimer]

IF we were allowed to legally purchase an AR here in the Peoples Republic of Washington, I would suggest the current basic S&W Sport III. https://www.smith-wesson.com/product/m-p-15-sport-iii-tungsten-gray
My first AR was an original Sport, no dust cover or forward assist. But it does have the 1 in 8" 5R rifled barrel and is my second most accurate AR. It is my only carbine length gas system. My next one is a Stag Model 6, most accurate (and HEAVY) AR. 24" 1 in 8" twist stainless steel heavy barrel, rifle gas system. Then I acquired an Anderson stripped lower and a Stag 20" A2 rifle kit that my son assembled for me. As close as I could get to the M-16 I was introduced to at Fort Knox 50 years ago. Since I had a 16", 20" and 24" barreled AR, I thought I should get a fancier one and why not an 18" rifle gas system? So, I dialed up a complete upper and lower from PSA. Accuracy wise, it has been a little underwhelming, but functions fine. After Trump got elected the first time, prices crashed on all things AR, so I went ahead and ordered a complete upper and lower PA-10 from PSA. So now I also have an 18" AR mid length gas in .308 Win. And finally, when the state of Washington decided that it's citizens are somehow legally denied their God given rights under the Second Amendment to the Constitutions (of both the United States and the State of Washington), I ordered a complete upper from PSA with a 16" barrel, 1 in 7" twist and mid length gas system, since I didn't have that configuration prior to the new laws taking effect.
I haven't sold any of them, (would have to go through an FFL to an out of state buyer to do so, and now the state government is trying to legislate the dealers out of business).
I guess my point is, it is nice to have a variety. If you think you might want one, buy it now while you can. If you like it, stock up. I hope the Supreme Court will someday restore lost liberty here and elsewhere, hopefully while I am still breathing or before I convince my wife to move to Idaho.

 

[titsonritz]

So again, the question is, what did you end up with as your best AR solution that you wished you started with?

Multiple ones, with specific roles.

I typically suggest new AR owners stick with 16" and longer barrels to avoid NFA or pinned MD until they know what they want. That way you have the ability to experiment with different handguard and MD setups.

 

[Aero Denezol]

The AR is so easy to wield and shoot that you really can't go wrong. Parts, ammo, and mags are everywere. IMO I think an M4-pattern rifle would probably work for the majority of people. You can train for CQB or shoot 300m equally well with the carbine. A bigger issue, as someone correctly pointed out, is the choice of optic. You have to be good with both the rifle and the optic.

 

[PiratePast40]

Whatever he chooses, go out and shoot as much as possible. The more you shoot it, the more you'll like it. Be sure to pick up as many standard capacity magazines as possible. I like the D&H magazines but there are all sorts of brands and styles that work well. Pick up some 10 and 20 rounders. They come in handy for bench and prone shooting.

 

[monkeybutler]

So hes not really into guns or ARs but you somehow managed to convince him to buy an AR? You get bonus points for that.

I would say if hes not really into it and just wants that one AR for the sake of his rights get a 16in carbine. He wouldnt have to worry about pistol brace legalities but the 16in is still easy to wield and long enough for better accuracy should he ever start getting the bug...

Accuracy is not a function of barrel length.

But yes a 16 would fit this situation.

 

[DirectDrive]

Get magged up before standard capacity mags get legislated out like here in WA.
Don't buy cheap mags.

Good mags are :
Pmag
Lancer
D&H
Brownells
DuraMag

 

[Koda]

Accuracy is not a function of barrel length.

true, but I was thinking of longer sight radius with iron sights.