FAL shooters?

[Creeper]

At one time, I owned both a Stoger imported, FN FAL 50.00 Match, and a SA M1A "Super Match".
To be honest, it's not a fair comparison in some ways, as the FAL was "stock" and the M1A was the best Springfield Armory could produce at the time.

The M1A was a 3/4" to 1" gun with Lake City Match or handloads... the FAL was a 1.50" gun with LCM and frequently a 1" gun with well developed handloads. Never could produce a sub 1" group however.
These would be 5 shot prone groups with an optic. I always sucked with iron sights, so no comments in that regard.

Both were wonderful guns and both a pure joy to shoot... I don't have either of them anymore, having sold them both in the mid 90s.

As a combat rifle, I believe the FAL would have been my first choice. Of course, the M1A was more closely fit and finely tuned than the FAL... I suspect a more standard gun might have tolerated a bit of dirt, mud, cold or a missed cleaning more readily than the Super Match.

These are the remembrances of my ownership... hope they offer some insight.

Another gun that was quite impressive was the SIG AMT. Easily the equal of a FAL or H&K 91, but much more rare to obtain in the US. If I found a nice one now, and had cash in hand, I wouldn't hesitate buying it.

C

 

[smitty]

Fusil Automatique Leger

"The Right Arm of the Free World"

I do like mine

And I'll have to agree with mb419 as I also have a PTR91 (it is a great rifle). The FAL is my favorite in .308

 

[hunterpoet]

I just bought a FAL HBAR and need some advice from those of you who have FALs. This thing won't shoot to save it's life. It functions fine, but at 200 yds my bullets are striking the target sideways. Anyone have a suggestion? If it isn't my barrel, is it the bullets? I am shooting 120 grn bosnian ball ammo. I would expect better results that this. The inside of the bore looks...pitted. I thought at first it was carbon, but lots of brushing and cleaning hasn't helped.

I also don't know how to manipulate the gas valve. I'm sure it's easy, I just haven't figured it out. Could you help? Anyone know where to get a weapons manual for my rifle? Also, why stay away from L1A1? Thanks!

 

[ZeroRing]

The inside of the bore looks...pitted. I thought at first it was carbon, but lots of brushing and cleaning hasn't helped.

THAT doesn't sound right at all. Was this a "new" gun or a used one? If used was there any statement made about it's service life and usage?

Sounds to me like you might have a bad barrel. Tough to know for sure without actually seeing it though. Might be worth a visit to your local gunsmith for an inspection.

 

[hunterpoet]

This was a used weapon. It has Isreali markings and came with both a US stock and an Isreali HBAR stock. I love the weapon, it functions flawlessly, but I know nothing of its history. I suppose it is possible (given the markings) that everything but the reciever saw full auto use as a SAW in the Isreali military. Nevertheless, looking into the bore I can't see any obvious reason for it to keyhole like this. Just as an FYI, this bore has only four lands and four grooves. Is this common to the FAL?

Next thing to do is switch ammo to something heavier. I am going to check the greenhill formula and see if switching bullets will help. If not, I guess it's the bore. I would buy a new barrel but this one is unique, having a fitting for an attachable heavy bipod that came with it, and a uniqely threaded flash hider. Anyone ever heard of relining the barrel in an autoloading weapon?

 

[DONUTofDEATH]

I'm a brand spankin' new FAL owner! Mine is a DSA SA58 16" Para, and it's currently #1 in my list of rifles I'm sweet on. Took a photo of it next to a boonie to let my friend know just how small it actually is. FWIW, I strongly believe in the Armalite AR-10T platform for a precision semi .308, and the FAL as the sturdiest battle rifle of the bunch. It's not as accurate, but it runs and runs and runs, and then you give it some more gas when it get dirty.
I have owned 2 SA M1A's, and sold both to finance other rifle projects, great rifles, but too much work and too hard to maintain accuracy over long periods to make into precision shooters for me.

 

[BillCh]

... brand spankin' new FAL...

One of these days...
those lotto numbers will pay off.

 

[wayoutwest]

MINE.....G1 kit on a Imbel Gear Logo reciever.....really like, wont sell it...

 

[Leif Runenritzer]

Fusil Automatique Leger

"The Right Arm of the Free World"

I love when the word "free" is debased to the meaning of "not communist". Ironically, Fidel Castro was given one during the revolution, and he liked it so much that he decided to arm his forces with them once in power. The ship that brought the FALs to Cuba blew up before they were unloaded, however.

Don't consider this a minus for the FAL, though; Ernesto "i'm on a t-shirt" Guevara favored the M14.

 

[Silver Fox]

Also, the HK91s are better for a collector, unless you get a replica. [/I]"

Charles I would have to disagree with you on this. FALs are great for collecting too. You can go clone (for all us non-rich guys) or go with original imports such as the Sterys, Browning "G" series and the Poyoer (SP?) all of which are high dollar items, very collectable and a great investment with a rich history.

I myself would rather go with the clones for the simple reason I can restore to as historically accurate as possible but I can still shoot them on any given day. With the clones you can have your Israeli Light barrel and Heavy Barrel (FALO) which the early ones where built by FN for the (at the time) young Israeli Army and then they finally acquired thier own License from FN to produce their own FALs. There was an importer, Oynx, out of MT that import alot of Izzy FALs some with original FN receivers. The later ones where the Type III's before adopting the Galil rifles.

I could go on and on but why when you we all have Google. In my opinion the HK's are collectable for the simple reason of HK marketing and the NAZI lineage of HK. HK was the first firearm company in North America to advertise to the American male military fantasies. The (in)famous poster of the unnamed "operator" (sic) in the swamp/creek hiding behind a log with his finger on the trigger boosted sales on the stamped receiver long guns. Note: I always thought it was funny that HK has to have a receiver gauge to ensure that it is with in specs should it be seriously dropped (doesn't sound like much of a "survivalist" gun but an O.K. rifle for a large army with a competent supply and maintenance branch. I digress. This advertising poster was HK's spring board into their "elite" status.

Please do not consider this an HK bashing thread. I own several HK's to include a M1 super 90 unfired HK pre-93 import. My HK 91 is considered a HK clone because it was not HK stamped. It is a Springfield SAR 3 (with the stamp of 8 over it hence the SAR 3/8 for it was sold with all the evil features after the 1989 ban). The SAR 3's come from Hellena (SP?), Greece but are the original rifles of the West German Army. As per the reconstruction plan, the West German Army could not be armed with weapons made in Germany so HK set up a plant in Greece to supply the West German Army and by pass the loop hole. Now the Border Patrol and the West German Police could be armed with weapons made in Germany as the reconstruction plan did not hinder them and the HK lineage stays pure.

A little side note in history: the HK 91 / G3 was not Germany's first choice of a 7.62 NATO rifle, the FAL was hence the G1. The West German army loved the FAL and purchased the rifles but also want to purchase the license to produce their own G1's at a much lower cost. The Belgians still had a small distaste over their treatment by the Germans from WW II which at the time was less than 20 years. I don't blame them. So, blah blah blah... the G3 came to life.

This is what you and I get when I drink coffee and mix gun talk on a Monday morning. Hope I didn't bore you.

SF-

 

[DONUTofDEATH]

Good info, thanks for sharing! :drink:

 

[ch139]

CharlesAFerg, what do you want this rifle for? To do? What niche will it fill?

The FAL and M14 are two distinctly different rifles. The FAL has had an extraordinary life as a battle rifle and has been time tested and mother approved. Its only become prevalent and gained it's strong following here in the states in the last 10-15 years (guessing here). Aside from its strong heritage as an MBR it has not had the coddling, tricking-out and tuning the M14 has for the past 30-years or so (guessing here too). Not that the M14 is a frail rifle at all; grandpa Garand's linage lives on there to be sure.

Think about it this way; what do you do to build an accurate, reliable M14 (M1A whatever)? Take it to a reputable smith and they know all the tips and tricks. They know what to do to make the M14 sing. Not so with the FAL. Sure there's a bunch of great FALsmiths that can make them run, but the FAL hasn't (and probably never will) enjoyed all those years of High Power and at Camp Perry etc. The FAL is gaining a lot of ground and pretty fast in the last decade, but I think that train is just about outta steam; kits and ammo have pretty much dried up (compared to what they used to be ...see it with the AKs now too).

So, if you're looking for a tough as nails battle rifle, I don't think you can go wrong either way. It's just preference. If you're looking to have an accurate gas-gun the M14 is the way to go. The FAL makes a cute SBR.

As for quality, it just costs money. The Springfield Armory M1A is a good rifle and SA does stand behind their product. For more money the LRB receivers +GI parts can't be beat, but you'll have to pay for it. Chinese guns are great (for the most part) Polytechs are fantastic. Norincos check to make sure everything (receiver and bolt) are properly hardened. The Chinese guns used to be the deal of the century, but have gone up in price over the years. Frankenguns/homebuilds: I stay away from them, but do as you like. On the FAL side, as mentioned by others, early imports have collectors value. DSA is by far the highest quality FAL on the market. IMBEL was importing a lot of great kits and receivers. Again though, be mindful of the homebuilt/franken guns. Lot of FAL "build parties" going on back in the day and a lot of clueless people putting guns together with a wrench in one hand and a beer in the other.

I just bought a FAL HBAR and need some advice from those of you who have FALs. This thing won't shoot to save it's life. It functions fine, but at 200 yds my bullets are striking the target sideways. Anyone have a suggestion? If it isn't my barrel, is it the bullets? I am shooting 120 grn bosnian ball ammo. I would expect better results that this. The inside of the bore looks...pitted. I thought at first it was carbon, but lots of brushing and cleaning hasn't helped.

I also don't know how to manipulate the gas valve. I'm sure it's easy, I just haven't figured it out. Could you help? Anyone know where to get a weapons manual for my rifle? Also, why stay away from L1A1? Thanks!

Your barrel may well be shot out. I'd try some heavier ball (147gr) first, but the big FALOs were supposed to be used as squad autos and your barrel might have been used quite a bit. Had to cut a 20-inch barrel on one of mine down a bit as it had been "cleaned too well" and the muzzle was more like a funnel.

The FAL (like the M14) vents gas. The FAL however has the adjustment to close up that bypass, thus getting more gas into the gas system and less into the atmosphere. This is to keep a dirty gun running longer or (I've also heard) to be used in adverse weather conditions. Similar idea to the old M249 gas bypass - to keep it running longer when dirty (not to speed up the cyclic rate to make it more fun