Exploring the upper limits of load data

[Koda]

25-06, 120gr Nosler partition, IMR4831.... use: hunting round.
Lee, and IMR load data tops out at 53gr.
I'm getting good groups 52gr up to 52.6gr but haven't gone above 52.6gr but just shy of what I was hoping for so I want to squeeze more velocity if possible so I'm undecided on my next load development if I want to compromise and start playing with seating depth or do one more optimal charge weight test all the way up to 53gr (52.8 and 53gr respectively). I am starting to notice the higher pressure on the spent primer but have not had any other pressure signs like stiff bolt ejection or ejector embossing on the case head.

Has anyone successfully developed a load near or at maximum, safely?

Opinions, cautions, advice or just don't ...all welcome.



(note: Im posting this late and tomorrow is a busy day for me, if my replies are short or not at all till I can thats why.)

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[DizzyJ]

What's the reason for wanting to squeeze out more velocity?

I often play the "velocity/pressure" game, but not for hunting loads. My advice; Find a good solid node in the upper end of the spectrum and stick with it. A few more FPS won't be as beneficial as solid accuracy.

If you've seen a couple of indicators of pressure I'd be hesitant to push much further.

JMHO on the matter. Which, is worth about what you paid for it.

 

[Koda]

What's the reason for wanting to squeeze out more velocity?

I wanted to hit 3100fps since I hunt elk with this small caliber. Its not a high priority and im about 3000/3025 (roughly given my newbe inconsistencies...).
Im totally willing to call it good but in the back of my mind is why is there published load data if its not usable?

 

[Tikka308]

Don't chase speed. If you miss an animal, or even worst get a bad shot and wound it, it won't fill the freezer. Always pick accuracy. I shoot a 6.5 creed out to 800 yards with a 2" group. A hole in the heart fills the freezer. Speed isn't as critical as you think. Yes flater shooting. Bullet drop is simple math. Slower drops more. Ballistics aps will tell ya what your drop is. It is just a different number on your turret.

 

[tac]

This post sits firmly under the 'hold my beer' flag.

I'd sooner share the range with a rabid tiger with a firecracker up its jacksie than a shooter who invents a new 'super load' that ignores the maximum tested data.

I've actually picked up the pieces after this happened for real, and in spite of all we could do, the experimental overloader died in my arms as I ran, carrying him, through the doors of the ER.

Trust me, it's real difficult to put a tourniquet on a pumping neck wound.

 

[red442joe]

"Put a thumb in it"
Sorry, I couldn't help it.
I'm a bad person....
To be fair, he is talking about going only to maximum.

Joe

 

[WillametteWill]

So solid advice above, and since you are already seeing pressure signs, agree, chase accuracy now or even back off a notch. Remember, small changes (heat, different crimp, bullet seating variations) can increase the pressure more next round. We don't want you have the experience @tac unfortunately had.

Another useful consideration for future loads is finding multiple data sources to see if the one you are using is abnormally high or low. I have some vintage manuals that skew to one side or the other. I trust newer books since they are using better equipment to test...but lawyers are better so I've noticed load charges moving down over the years. One of my 223 loads is over max in the current books but was under the old data. Worked it up slowly with no issues and know others who shoot this same load as well.

 

[quneur]

The tiny reasoning part of my damaged brain says achieving more velocity/accuracy will result in over penetration. Will the jacket on the Nosler expand upon impact or travel deeper before full expansion? Wound channel? Bonded? How far will the bullet penetrate before shocking/energy dump?

 

[Greenbug]

Do you think the Elk will be able to tell the difference?

 

[Koda]

All, yes... To clarify i put accuracy above speed and am NOT talking about exceeding published load data. And yes, the bullet will perform per Noslers own load data.
I would do another load test working up to it and stop well in advance if I find pressure signs. Published load data exists, what is the reason to not explore or use it if needed?

 

[WillametteWill]

As I noted prior, one of my loads is above the current max load data. Having said this, I have many loads that maxed out (for me and my comfort level) well below the max listed due to various factors. So the "max" sometimes may be beyond the max. Agree that it is okay to explore, I just no longer consider the load data max as always a safe limit.

 

[Koda]

As I noted prior, one of my loads is above the current max load data. Having said this, I have many loads that maxed out (for me and my comfort level) well below the max listed due to various factors. So the "max" sometimes may be beyond the max. Agree that it is okay to explore, I just no longer consider the load data max as always a safe limit.

This makes sense to me, thank you.
Makes me feel like I shouldnt use the max limit even if max was usable but just to have some tolerance range built into my load for other factors. Appreciate the reply here.

 

[DizzyJ]

All three of my savage bolt action rifles won't come close to the max listed loads and listed components without piercing primers and or leaving other pressure signs. (.223/.308)

As mentioned, max in the book might not be your rifle and load combination max.

Again, not saying I haven't done it, but for your application, I'd say proceed with extreme caution, or, just stay with the load you've got and possibly play with seating depth.

 

[Koda]

I think based on the input I dont see a need anymore to test the max load now, I dont like the idea of not having an upper tolerance with other factors and the few extra FPS gain wont be enough to worry about.
Appreciate the feedback.

 

[2506]

25-06, 120gr Nosler partition, IMR4831.... use: hunting round.
Lee, and IMR load data tops out at 53gr.
I'm getting good groups 52gr up to 52.6gr but haven't gone above 52.6gr but just shy of what I was hoping for so I want to squeeze more velocity if possible so I'm undecided on my next load development if I want to compromise and start playing with seating depth or do one more optimal charge weight test all the way up to 53gr (52.8 and 53gr respectively). I am starting to notice the higher pressure on the spent primer but have not had any other pressure signs like stiff bolt ejection or ejector embossing on the case head.

Has anyone successfully developed a load near or at maximum, safely?

Opinions, cautions, advice or just don't ...all welcome.



(note: Im posting this late and tomorrow is a busy day for me, if my replies are short or not at all till I can thats why.)

I shoot a 100gr NBT over 57gr of RL-22 and get about 3550fps out of my 25-06. No problems at all. Kills muleys DRT.

 

[Koda]

I shoot a 100gr NBT over 57gr of RL-22 and get about 3550fps out of my 25-06. No problems at all. Kills muleys DRT.

My next project is a 100gr Barns TTSX with Ramshot Magnum, just for deer and pronghorn. I dont know if that will get me 3550fps though....

 

[titsonritz]

Bullet construction and shot placement are way more important the FPS or FPE.

 

[Koda]

Bullet construction and shot placement are way more important the FPS or FPE.

Yup, Thats why I picked the Nosler Partition...

 

[2506]

My next project is a 100gr Barns TTSX with Ramshot Magnum, just for deer and pronghorn. I dont know if that will get me 3550fps though....

I could never get Barnes to adequately group in my 25-06

 

[oremike]

Numbers are for bean counters, accuracy is for Hunters and Marksmen. People are always asking me for the numbers on the loads I make. The problem is there is no industry standard for how that data is generated. The best I can do is say "on this day out of my gun this is what I got". More than once I've had to take my 25" barreled single shot 45-70 and show that my ammo shoots to my data in my gun but in a 18" lever gun it will be quite different.

Edited to add: Once you get the load you are happy with, then you can plug the real world numbers, not book numbers, into a ballistic calculator to build your bullet drop compinsator table.