Dieudonné Saive - JM Browning's protégé

[The Heretic]

I've never cared for FAL sights and much prefer the ones on the "abomination."


I don't about that...maybe back in the day of legacy battle rifles, but when you take into consideration the modern M14 chassis like the Sage International EBR series, Troy S.A.S.S. and VLTOR CASV-14 handguard & M1-S Stock systems...I don't think so.

Can you swap out the upper on an M1A/M14? I haven't seen any indication of that.

 

[titsonritz]

Can you swap out the upper on an M1A/M14? I haven't seen any indication of that.

FAL are more like switching lowers than uppers and that must be done with the understanding an upper receiver is registered and must be FFL transferred, metric and inch do not interchange, action springs don't interchange para vs. full length. Guys I know with FALs have STG 58, Israeli Heavy, Para model, etc and pretty much keep them in their respective configurations, so I'm not sure what that really you get.

 

[kopcicle]

so I'm not sure what that really you.

eggplant?
mayhap edit for clarity

 

[The Heretic]

FAL are more like switching lowers than uppers and that must be done with the understanding an upper receiver is registered and must be FFL transferred, metric and inch do not interchange, action springs don't interchange para vs. full length. Guys I know with FALs have STG 58, Israeli Heavy, Para model, etc and pretty much keep them in their respective configurations, so I'm not sure what that really you.

I was speaking more along the lines of why the military would want a more modular/configurable Battle Rifle system, which the M1A/M14 is not (not even with chassis - which are systems available now, not back in the 50s).

 

[spookshack]

There is JMB and then there is the rest…….

 

[The Heretic]

 

[Oro]

There is JMB and then there is the rest…….

Unless you want the finest combat handgun ever made - the Browning Hi Power.

Which was created by Dieudonne Saive, not John Browning. Browning had checked out of the process long before it was shaped and refined. I appreciate the OP brought up this very misunderstood and under-rated designer. It honestly offends me he is not more appreciated and his finest work is constantly mis-attributed to Browning.

 

[The Heretic]

Unless you want the finest combat handgun ever made - the Browning Hi Power.

Which was created by Dieudonne Saive, not John Browning. Browning had checked out of the process long before it was shaped and refined. I appreciate the OP brought up this very misunderstood and under-rated designer. It honestly offends me he is not more appreciated and his finest work is constantly mis-attributed to Browning.

And/or not.

I have rarely seen anybody give credit to JMB for the Hi-Power - it is almost always pushed that the 1911 was the best handgun because it was JMB's "crowning achievement" and therefore anything high capacity in 9x19 is a "wonder nine" and not worth considering - when JMB did some of the early work on it. Had JMB lived, he would have had more input into the Hi-Power.

Both JMB and Saive were good gun designers and the Hi-Power is a good gun.

 

[DunRanull]

And/or not.

I have rarely seen anybody give credit to JMB for the Hi-Power - it is almost always pushed that the 1911 was the best handgun because it was JMB's "crowning achievement" and therefore anything high capacity in 9x19 is a "wonder nine" and not worth considering - when JMB did some of the early work on it. Had JMB lived, he would have had more input into the Hi-Power.

Both JMB and Saive were good gun designers and the Hi-Power is a good gun.

I'd like to think, that had JMB lived longer, the BHP would have been designed ground-up as a DOUBLE action w/15 round mag... Then, it would have been perfect!

 

[kopcicle]

It all comes down to the magazine. Saive made it work.
The original locked breech design was a work around the 1911 patents.
The BDA or crunch and ticker , and BDAO didn't come along until 1980.
Saive had been deceased 10 years by that time. Although Saive is rumored to have been available to FN up to his death, his day to day involvement ended in the '60s.
That I've seen there is no clear designer attributed to the BDA, BDAO, or even the similar 39-2, 59-2 Smith and Wesson.
The days of the great designer had ended, replaced by committee.

Not that there haven't been relative recent designers of note.
Bill Ruger, Gaston Glock*, and Ronnie Barrett easily come to mind. There are others.

My point is that the brilliance of John Moses Browning may not ever be approached let alone surpassed.
His ability to visualize a complete design and move to the shop with nothing more than that vision and create a working prototype is unequaled. That Winchester and Colt were able to create the manufacturing process is another story entirely.

Saive on the other hand was by today's standards a more conventional designer. The concept was put on paper and the prototype created.
Then entered the tried and true British method of cut, fit, and try, to finish the design.

How would the brilliance of these designers fit in with today's world of CAD-CAM? One can only wonder.

* Gaston Glock had no previous weapons design experience. His expertise was advanced polymers and metallic surface treatments. Curiously his manufacturing began with curtain rods.