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One of my favorite movies. In fact, my dog is named Igor because of it.
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- Thread Starter
- #62
That's what the ol' 06' is that she's going to try, a red butt Ruger. Recoil doesn't scare her at all, the rifle even weighs less than her old competition rifles. She really enjoys larger bore AR's as well as shotguns. Tomorrow is the day, been busy with Dr appts and my oldest son doing his driving test (he passed).
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Tell him congratulations.....now is when the grey hair starts really coming in!
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What is your experience with a .300 Blackout and a 110gr Barnes copper bullet at 250 yards on deer?
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While I respect the .30-06 (my Dad's favorite for years), and I have taken my largest Pronghorn with one, I would NEVER utilize it as an entry-level cartridge for a new hunter, ESPECIALLY a youth or female (even with competition experience with low-recoiling guns).
If one is looking to ATTRACT a female to hunting, the rifle MUST BE PLEASANT for the shooter. NOT "she can handle it". NOT "she seems to be okay with it".
It must be friendly. It must be fun. It must be gentle. She must be able to (more importantly WANT to) shoot it accurately, consistently and often.
While the analogy is inappropriate here for a daughter, think of dating a young woman and convincing her that something she's never done before is entirely natural and enjoyable and to be looked forward to. You don't start at the top of the scale. Not even the middle. Go easy and keep her happy and entirely comfortable.
Plenty of deer-capable cartridges fill this bill completely. The .30-06 generally fails here. It is too much recoil to qualify as a "draw" to get her cheerfully into hunting. The .243/257 Roberts/.250 Savage category supplies devastating reliable power on deer and does it with kindness to the shooter.
Do you want her to learn to love the hunt and make it a part of her life? Imagine it as a suitor: the suitor in first encounters cannot afford even ONE aspect of himself to show as unpleasant or uncomfortable. Women are far more gradual in their attractions, acceptances and excitements. Far more critical than men. Far more sensitive to what seems not entirely right.
"My hunting is a permanent love affair. It goes on and on,..."
Robin Hurt, Professional Hunter, East Africa
If one is looking to ATTRACT a female to hunting, the rifle MUST BE PLEASANT for the shooter. NOT "she can handle it". NOT "she seems to be okay with it".
It must be friendly. It must be fun. It must be gentle. She must be able to (more importantly WANT to) shoot it accurately, consistently and often.
While the analogy is inappropriate here for a daughter, think of dating a young woman and convincing her that something she's never done before is entirely natural and enjoyable and to be looked forward to. You don't start at the top of the scale. Not even the middle. Go easy and keep her happy and entirely comfortable.
Plenty of deer-capable cartridges fill this bill completely. The .30-06 generally fails here. It is too much recoil to qualify as a "draw" to get her cheerfully into hunting. The .243/257 Roberts/.250 Savage category supplies devastating reliable power on deer and does it with kindness to the shooter.
Do you want her to learn to love the hunt and make it a part of her life? Imagine it as a suitor: the suitor in first encounters cannot afford even ONE aspect of himself to show as unpleasant or uncomfortable. Women are far more gradual in their attractions, acceptances and excitements. Far more critical than men. Far more sensitive to what seems not entirely right.
"My hunting is a permanent love affair. It goes on and on,..."
Robin Hurt, Professional Hunter, East Africa
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- Thread Starter
- #66
Must have missed the several times I've mentioned that she is nowhere near afraid of recoil. Her favorite gun to shoot recoils like a 12ga with slugs. When I tossed the 30-06 into the mix it was more to ask if it would be too much for the small deer we have in this side of the mountain.
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Run wht'chya brung. She'll be fine with the -06.Maybe it's just me, but out in the field there is no recoil, there is no ringing of ears, just the "thud" you hear when the bullet strikes home. Funny thing about how quickly adrenaline takes over. I'm a few months from 70 now and still get the shakes.
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She certainly doesn't need to be "afraid" to be affected. Any shooter honest with themselves will admit (or will have to be shown) they will shoot a rifle of significant recoil less consistently than an identical rifle with significantly less recoil.
Fear has nothing to do with it.
Your reply may easily have omitted any derogatory reference to reading skills. It detracted from the rest of your position.
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I have lived the concept of what Spit is laying down! I have never been afraid of recoil and have owned and shot many big boomers well. About 15 yrs ago or so I realized I was developing a flinch when I had a misfire on a chambered round with a 338 RUM. I absolutely abhorred muzzle brakes at the time and refused to put one on this beast. Down the road it went and my love affair with moderate recoiling rifles that were effective on game was solidified. I feel My lethality on North American big game has improved since I moved away from heavier recoiling rifles. Good shot placement has been front and center in the success. It is easier to practice and consistently place shots where you want them with light to moderate recoiling rifles. Oh, and I still hate muzzle brakes and have finally transitioned to hunting with suppressors in many situations.
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7mm-08 in a new rifle would be my vote as it is currently one of my favorites for deer and elk.
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I have only shot one deer with anything besides the 30-06 and every deer was on the west side.
Dead deer is a dead deer.
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My wife has a 7mm-08 that works great for her. Shorter action and very manageable recoil. She can shoot a couple boxes in a session no problem.
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Only generally speaking, and having taught more kids and women to be hunters than I have fingers, I'd put the 7-08 at the top of the "entry level big game cartridges for women and youth". It is generally recognized as fully reliable on Elk. The various non-magnum 6.5's I'd put just under that.
One young person shot my sheep rifle (a .270), and decided on her own that was where she wanted to start. A bumpy start. Within two years, she opted instead for a .243 and her shooting in the field became flawless on game.
A tiny 12 year-old began her centerfire career with a Mini-Mauser .223. Learned VERY fast to shoot it like a laser gun. Took her first Pronghorn buck with one shot at 275 yards, went on to kill 5 more and 2 big Muleys at last report. Yet to hunt Elk, she needs no other rifle.
A New York lady from Alaska had done a lot of fishing, not much hunting. Husband tried to get her to shoot his .308. She had the balls to tell him she didn't like it in a New York minute, and eventually fell in love with a .250-3000 Savage, Ruger M77 in a Ramline stock, she called, "The Black Widow". Caribou, Pronghorn and Moose (in numbers) to her credit. The husband was my brother. Rosie was my pupil.
Memorable experiences that lead me to my conclusions and recommendations.
One young person shot my sheep rifle (a .270), and decided on her own that was where she wanted to start. A bumpy start. Within two years, she opted instead for a .243 and her shooting in the field became flawless on game.
A tiny 12 year-old began her centerfire career with a Mini-Mauser .223. Learned VERY fast to shoot it like a laser gun. Took her first Pronghorn buck with one shot at 275 yards, went on to kill 5 more and 2 big Muleys at last report. Yet to hunt Elk, she needs no other rifle.
A New York lady from Alaska had done a lot of fishing, not much hunting. Husband tried to get her to shoot his .308. She had the balls to tell him she didn't like it in a New York minute, and eventually fell in love with a .250-3000 Savage, Ruger M77 in a Ramline stock, she called, "The Black Widow". Caribou, Pronghorn and Moose (in numbers) to her credit. The husband was my brother. Rosie was my pupil.
Memorable experiences that lead me to my conclusions and recommendations.
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At the rehearsal when a friend was getting married, his brother, the best man, suggested that we hum that tune when the preacher asked if he took her to be his wife! (which we did)
They later divorced...
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If your interested i have a great remington 600 in 308. It's in Great shape. Google them and see what u think.
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It is NOT something I would employ in training with a novice shooter, but an old "Range Officer Ruse" that is starkly enlightening for anyone who suspects themselves (or a buddy) of reacting negatively to recoil is to have a partner work the bolt of the shooter's gun while turned away from the shooter (and out of earshot from any shooter crafty enough to hear a cartridge traveling to battery).
The partner chooses whether or not a cartridge is picked up and chambered by the bolt. The shooter is handed his gun and left to wonder while he squeezes the trigger: live round or empty chamber?
Of course, this works best if the shooter can be out-foxed by his "friend" (perhaps now a temporary position), saying something like, "Let me see your gun, I want to check something", works the bolt and hands it back with something like, "Hot and ready, safety on." If the procedure is discussed ahead of time, of course the effect is lessened because the shooter braces for either outcome: a false and less dramatic result of the experiment.
Our "He-Man" shooter who has always claimed, "I'm not affected by recoil.", "Recoil doesn't bother me", "I never flinch", etc., etc. etc., ad nauseum is in for a split-second education complete with an applauding audience when he's handed his diploma. When ego is on the line, embarrassment is magnified.
@osprey was lucky enough to accomplish this all on his own, and smart enough to recognize it and take it to heart, leaving any ego on the table.
These guys almost always supply the tool for that magnification of embarrassment in their choice of caliber they are convinced they are immune to. They've brought their own indicator in the form of a belted boomer or similar.
Another educational technique is to have on hand an identical (or VERY similar) rifle of a significantly less-recoiling caliber, allow Superman to have his fun with his cross-canyon thumper, then in the course of comradery, "offer" the gentler gun to try with no goal stated. Only much later is the inevitable contrast between group sizes pointed out. If Superman is truly "bulletproof", the group sizes should be indistinguishable from each other. (They won't be.)
This is NOT to say there aren't shooters with vast experience that are able to effectively overcome their natural biological negative reactions to heavy recoil. These same shooters having developed that enviable skill will be the very first to tell you that those negative reactions indeed and most assuredly exist. Never will they engage in "Bar Talk" about not being affected.
As to "You never hear the gun or feel the recoil when shooting at game", while frequently true, it is an empty claim toward saying recoil will therefore have no effect.
Practice sessions will have conditioned the BODY to react negatively regardless of what messages are delivered or not delivered to the brain in that heated moment.
The partner chooses whether or not a cartridge is picked up and chambered by the bolt. The shooter is handed his gun and left to wonder while he squeezes the trigger: live round or empty chamber?
Of course, this works best if the shooter can be out-foxed by his "friend" (perhaps now a temporary position), saying something like, "Let me see your gun, I want to check something", works the bolt and hands it back with something like, "Hot and ready, safety on." If the procedure is discussed ahead of time, of course the effect is lessened because the shooter braces for either outcome: a false and less dramatic result of the experiment.
Our "He-Man" shooter who has always claimed, "I'm not affected by recoil.", "Recoil doesn't bother me", "I never flinch", etc., etc. etc., ad nauseum is in for a split-second education complete with an applauding audience when he's handed his diploma. When ego is on the line, embarrassment is magnified.
@osprey was lucky enough to accomplish this all on his own, and smart enough to recognize it and take it to heart, leaving any ego on the table.
These guys almost always supply the tool for that magnification of embarrassment in their choice of caliber they are convinced they are immune to. They've brought their own indicator in the form of a belted boomer or similar.
Another educational technique is to have on hand an identical (or VERY similar) rifle of a significantly less-recoiling caliber, allow Superman to have his fun with his cross-canyon thumper, then in the course of comradery, "offer" the gentler gun to try with no goal stated. Only much later is the inevitable contrast between group sizes pointed out. If Superman is truly "bulletproof", the group sizes should be indistinguishable from each other. (They won't be.)
This is NOT to say there aren't shooters with vast experience that are able to effectively overcome their natural biological negative reactions to heavy recoil. These same shooters having developed that enviable skill will be the very first to tell you that those negative reactions indeed and most assuredly exist. Never will they engage in "Bar Talk" about not being affected.
As to "You never hear the gun or feel the recoil when shooting at game", while frequently true, it is an empty claim toward saying recoil will therefore have no effect.
Practice sessions will have conditioned the BODY to react negatively regardless of what messages are delivered or not delivered to the brain in that heated moment.
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When shooting my first Appleseed two day KD event two snap caps were part of the equipment list. They were for performing this exact drill.
I was the odd man out with the only bolt action rifle in the crowd so one of the instructors was my "reloader". I'm happy to report that I passed the test.
It's a great tool.
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Yeah, I ALWAYS do better when I know I'm gonna be tested. Kinda like gettin' the teacher's answer sheet ahead of time.When shooting my first Appleseed two day KD event two snap caps were part of the equipment list. They were for performing this exact drill.
I was the odd man out with the only bolt action rifle in the crowd so one of the instructors was my "reloader". I'm happy to report that I passed the test.
It's a great tool.
The snap cap idea is a good one for outsmarting those who can hear a cartridge moving.
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