Copper fouling in barrel

[gmerkt]

Copper fouling in the barrel isn't a problem that I've had often. However, one of my M1 Rifles (.308) developed a bad case of it lately. After firing about 200 Sierra 168 gr. HPBT Match King bullets. In two different sessions. After the first session a few months ago, I didn't get the barrel properly cleaned. Yesterday was the second session and it got worse.

Last night, I spent two hours cleaning the rifle. After I shoot an M1 Rifle, I always field strip it for cleaning. But ordinarily that doesn't take anything like two hours, more like a half an hour to do it properly. Last night, I got stuck on cleaning the copper out of the barrel. That was a job of work.

I've got a box full of various gun cleaning chemicals. Some have worked better than others. I found three bottles that claimed to have copper removing properties. I used them in the following sequence:

1. Shooter's Choice Copper Remover. Following the instructions, it was almost useless. When patching didn't work, I switched over to using it with a nylon brush. No improvement. It smelled of ammonia.

2. Butch's Bore Shine, which claims to remove copper deposits. Following the instructions, it didn't work any better than Shooter's Choice. Including with a nylon brush. It also smelled of ammonia.

3. With reluctance, I started thinking of some kind of bore paste. I decided to take another look in the box of chemicals and I discovered that I also had a bottle of Bore Tech Cu+2. So I used this following the instructions, and the first patching came out very blue. Which was a good indicator. I switched over to using the nylon brush, and after a few cycles of this, the bore had come quite clean. To my immense relief. By this time, I was pretty weary of stroking barrels. No smell of ammonia while using this product.

So there are probably other products out there that work as well as Bore Tech Cu+2 but I was happy with its results. All of my chemicals are old, and I'm wondering if age might be a factor in the ineffectiveness of the first two.

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[TTSX]

I've had pretty good luck with Barrett heavy bore cleaner. Comes in a big ol bottle and does a great job of carbon and copper removal without being too aggressive about it. I tend to think of having some copper as a good thing. Fills in the low spots and I can pretend it's like rail grease for the next one

 

[64MercurysRule]

Bore Tech is a recommended product . Some have used Wipeout foam cleaner .
After getting powder carbon cleaned out I have used Sweets 7.62 or Barnes cr10 for 10-15 minutes to remove copper fouling . Also have used Mothers wheel polish to get out stubborn fouling . Some have done a Hoppes soak overnight & garnered good results to dissolve copper . YMMV .

 

[Koda]

All I shoot in my hunting rifles is solid copper bullets and its always been mostly easy to clean the bore down to bare metal in just a few patches.
Occasionally the borescope will show a stubborn deposite of copper streak and ill let that soak a minite the hit it with a bore brush and its gone.

I use Proshot Copper Cleaner on cotton patches. I run the first patch and soak the bore and let it sit around 15 minutes. I run another wet patch until clean, around 4-5 patches.

 

[ron]

I use good old hoppy's number 9 for my m1. Let it soak overnight the next day the patch will be blue. Repeat until the patch is no longer blue. You can smooth up that barrel with some JB bore paste. When I clean an m1 or an M14 I rarely take the rifle out of the wood. The more you take it out of the wood the more it degrades accuracy.

 

[thorborg]

Of no help, but back in the day, Mercury was poured into the barrel to dissolve Copper, Cupronickel and mostly lead. Hat manufactures used mercury to to stiffen the felt earning them the nickname mad hatters.
Some how Mad Smithy doesn't have the same ring to it. That just sounds angry.

 

[64MercurysRule]

Does this qualify as a mad hatter ......

 

[Robear]

The copper cleaners you tried work find. Read the instructions. The cleaners dissolve the copper. No need for a brush once you've got the powder fouling out. You are supposed to swab the bore with the cleaner on a patch, wait a few minutes and swab again. The patches have blue coloring from the ammonia reacting with the copper. Keep doing this until you get a clear patch.

 

[Mikej]

Copper fouling in the barrel isn't a problem that I've had often. However, one of my M1 Rifles (.308) developed a bad case of it lately. After firing about 200 Sierra 168 gr. HPBT Match King bullets. In two different sessions. After the first session a few months ago, I didn't get the barrel properly cleaned. Yesterday was the second session and it got worse.

Last night, I spent two hours cleaning the rifle. After I shoot an M1 Rifle, I always field strip it for cleaning. But ordinarily that doesn't take anything like two hours, more like a half an hour to do it properly. Last night, I got stuck on cleaning the copper out of the barrel. That was a job of work.

I've got a box full of various gun cleaning chemicals. Some have worked better than others. I found three bottles that claimed to have copper removing properties. I used them in the following sequence:

1. Shooter's Choice Copper Remover. Following the instructions, it was almost useless. When patching didn't work, I switched over to using it with a nylon brush. No improvement. It smelled of ammonia.

2. Butch's Bore Shine, which claims to remove copper deposits. Following the instructions, it didn't work any better than Shooter's Choice. Including with a nylon brush. It also smelled of ammonia.

3. With reluctance, I started thinking of some kind of bore paste. I decided to take another look in the box of chemicals and I discovered that I also had a bottle of Bore Tech Cu+2. So I used this following the instructions, and the first patching came out very blue. Which was a good indicator. I switched over to using the nylon brush, and after a few cycles of this, the bore had come quite clean. To my immense relief. By this time, I was pretty weary of stroking barrels. No smell of ammonia while using this product.

So there are probably other products out there that work as well as Bore Tech Cu+2 but I was happy with its results. All of my chemicals are old, and I'm wondering if age might be a factor in the ineffectiveness of the first two.

I came to a conclusion that if you are using brass jaggs, there will ALWAYS be BLUE on the patch.

Heck, I can not get everything out of my Swede Mausers. No matter what I do ,how many times, I still get black and/or blue.

 

[gmerkt]

When I clean an m1 or an M14 I rarely take the rifle out of the wood. The more you take it out of the wood the more it degrades accuracy.

I've heard some people say that over on the CMP forums. I'm simply a service grade shooter, not match grade. I figure any degradation of accuracy from demounting the stock will be gradual over time, and will be limited. I mean, it's not going to get down to shotgun pattern levels. It's not in me to leave all that crud in the gas system, the bits of brass down inside the magazine area, etc. In the army, we took the M14 apart to clean it, I guess it became a habit.

I use Hoppe's No. 9 bore cleaner all the time. In my experience it hasn't been all that helpful with serious copper fouling.

but back in the day, Mercury was poured into the barrel to dissolve Copper, Cupronickel and mostly lead.

I used to clean lead out of .38 Special barrels with mercury. I still have a vial of mercury around here but haven't used it in years. I've moved away from cast bullets other than some coated ones I've bought lately. In my gun chemicals, I've got a bottle of lead "solvent" which works with ho-hum results. I used to have a lead removing system that involved a special jag that used a "patch" of fine, brass hardware cloth (screen). Those worked well but I lost all of the .44 stuff I had; still have the .357 jag. Another thing I've used are those kind of spiral stainless steel Tornado brushes. They get all the proud lead out quickly; you still have to brush out what's left in the "forcing sides" (little crack where the land meets the groove). Tornado brushes work quick miracles in badly fouled shotgun barrels.

The copper cleaners you tried work find. Read the instructions. The cleaners dissolve the copper. No need for a brush once you've got the powder fouling out. You are supposed to swab the bore with the cleaner on a patch, wait a few minutes and swab again. The patches have blue coloring from the ammonia reacting with the copper. Keep doing this until you get a clear patch.

I did all that. As I said previously, I followed the directions on the bottles. After repeated attempts with the first two, very little blue was seen on a patch at any point. Only when I used the Bore Tech did I start seeing blue immediately. This is why I was wondering if age has anything to do with effectiveness of these chemicals, although the Bore Tech is just as old as the other two I used.

Bore Tech instructions advise using a nylon brush for heavy copper fouling.

Later, I was looking around online to see what comments others have about effective copper cleaning bore solvents. Bore Tech was mentioned as being effective. Sweets, Barnes, and KG12 were popular. Wipe Out foaming bore cleaner was mentioned several times. I'm pretty sure I've got a little can of that in my gun chemicals, I'll have to revisit. I didn't know it was good for removing copper or I might've tried it.

You can smooth up that barrel with some JB bore past

This is something I'm going to keep my eye on with that rifle. My other M1 Rifle is a .30-06, fairly low round count factory bbl., never has issues with copper fouling. The .308 is a 2013 CMP built rifle, with a new Criterion bbl. I'm sure it could use some smoothing out. I have some bore paste but since it contains an abrasive however minute, I was reluctant to use it to remove the copper. Now that the copper is out is the time to use the paste, it seems to me.

Removing copper from a rifle bore is another of those areas where people disagree. Some advise against ever removing copper fouling, saying it fills in the tiny irregularities from machining. Which I accept, in small amounts. However, in this case, the copper fouling was severe, and increased after two range sessions. I'm thinking, "layering." Which can't be a good thing.

The next time I shoot this rifle, I'm going to fire ammo loaded with Remington made bullets and see if that makes a difference vice the Sierra product.

 

[Member 74756]

All I shoot in my hunting rifles is solid copper bullets and its always been mostly easy to clean the bore down to bare metal in just a few patches.
Occasionally the borescope will show a stubborn deposite of copper streak and ill let that soak a minite the hit it with a bore brush and its gone.

I use Proshot Copper Cleaner on cotton patches. I run the first patch and soak the bore and let it sit around 15 minutes. I run another wet patch until clean, around 4-5 patches.

View attachment 1931943

View attachment 1931944

Nice

 

[ron]

Service Rifle shooters (AR-15) use JB Bore paste on a regular basis. Use it for barrel break in and about
every 1K rounds. Smooth up the barrel a few inches from the throat. This is where the dreaded carbon
ring appears. Old rifles like M1s, 03's, Mausers etc. can benefit from smoothing up the bore to improve
accuracy and reduce fouling. I clean my M1's by soaking in Hoppe's overnight. Wet patch the next day
will be blue until all copper is removed. I have cleaned some old rifles that took weeks to get the copper
out.

 

[P7M13]

I had some rifles that were pretty difficult to clean, mixed some 28% ammonium hydroxide with turpentine and repeatedly pushed jags of it through the bore. Then swabbed with patches wetted with distilled water to neutralize the bore pH, and finished with a few swipes of oil.
Turpentine smells nasty to me, but it sure works to clear out carbon.

 

[boattail]

I use Montana Extreme copper cleaner. This stuff is very strong smelling and I use it outdoors only. I have some high mileage squirrel guns that need cleaning every couple thousand rounds and I have had good luck with it.

 

[Ifishsum]

Now would be the time for a good scrub with JB Bore Paste, while it's really as clean as it can get otherwise. Theoretically it will start fouling less as it smooths out from bullets and from cleaning, and most of the time that's held true for me. At least for a newish barrel.

 

[gmerkt]

Now would be the time for a good scrub with JB Bore Paste, while it's really as clean as it can get otherwise.

This has been my thinking.

Theoretically it will start fouling less as it smooths out from bullets and from cleaning,

Yes but ... how many sessions with the Bore Tech copper cleaning will I have to perform before this is so? Rhetorical question but pasting would no doubt hurry the process along.

 

[Koda]

Yes but ... how many sessions with the Bore Tech copper cleaning will I have to perform before this is so?

In my experience this only applies to new barrels, during their break in period. Myself I wouldnt use abrasive cleaners unless there was damage in the barrel somehow. If youve got a couple hundred rounds thru it, its settled in and just needs cleaning. A barrel will still have machining imperfections some like those filled with deposites to smooth out often a rifle will shoot better on a fouled bore until it get bad again and the groups open up.
IMO one of those cheap borescopes off amazon is really the only good way to know how clean a bore is, makes cleaning so much easier because you can see/learn how well your current process works, then use a nylon brush to focus only on the spot thats being stubborn saving time.

 

[Mikej]

In my experience this only applies to new barrels, during their break in period. Myself I wouldnt use abrasive cleaners unless there was damage in the barrel somehow. If youve got a couple hundred rounds thru it, its settled in and just needs cleaning. A barrel will still have machining imperfections some like those filled with deposites to smooth out often a rifle will shoot better on a fouled bore until it get bad again and the groups open up.
IMO one of those cheap borescopes off amazon is really the only good way to know how clean a bore is, makes cleaning so much easier because you can see/learn how well your current process works, then use a nylon brush to focus only on the spot thats being stubborn saving time.

I would be afraid that the "cheap" bore scope from Amazon wouldn't have a good enough view of the bore to see what you needed to.
It would be very cool though to be able to see the bores of a the 100+ year old rifles I have.

 

[Koda]

I would be afraid that the "cheap" bore scope from Amazon wouldn't have a good enough view of the bore to see what you needed to.
It would be very cool though to be able to see the bores of a the 100+ year old rifles I have.

The photo of my rifle bore I shared above was taken from my cheap Teslong borescope I bought off Amazon for about 50 bucks.

And I have used it to see inside a 100+ year old rifle bore (it was really bad... )

The cheap Teslongs off Amazon work really well for the money. IMO a bore scope is essential if anyone truly wants to know how well they are taking care of their rifles....

 

[Member 53867]

Removing copper from a rifle bore is another of those areas where people disagree. Some advise against ever removing copper fouling, saying it fills in the tiny irregularities from machining. Which I accept, in small amounts. However, in this case, the copper fouling was severe, and increased after two range sessions. I'm thinking, "layering." Which can't be a good thing.

For some reason, this made me wonder what would happen if you copper electroplated the bore of a stainless-steel AR-15 barrel. Exactly like chrome plating, but completely different.

Probably just gall up and stick one in the barrel.