Compliant AR build question

[evburt]

How hard is it to removed the fixed magazine?

Looks like something readily interpreted as a conversion kit. Or a de facto evil black rifle.

Is it a legit fixed magazine, like without a mag release or even a CA-style bullet button? That's wild, haven't seen that before. So the only way to load it is to separate the upper and lower??

 

[trukinbear]

This is what the California compliant I built for my son looks like, I imagine Washington is similar. In California you can have a detachable magazine as long as you don't have a pistol grip, flash hider, bayonet, or grenade launcher. Most get around that with those awful 'fin' grips, or go with a fixed magazine, but I went the other way - Thorsden FRS-15 Gen2 'not a pistol grip' fixed stock, with Thorsden buffer tube 'not a butstock' cheek rest, and a AWS muzzle brake. Ok, it looks funny, but the Thorsden stock has the same contour, and feel of the venerable M1 Carbine so it feels very natural.

 

[Elk_Sniper]

The ATF is not in charge of interpreting or enforcing WA laws. They will sign off on basically anything if the store says it is state compliant. If the state and the store disagree on that that is for them to hash out, not the ATF. If the store loses then the state gets to go to the ATF and tell them the store is breaking the law. Only at that point will the ATF will take action against the store, likely by yanking their license. Of course at that point that is the least of the store's concerns, because they just lost a (probably felony) case against the state. Those come with massive fines and jail time. I hope they have good lawyers, because this looks like splitting hairs in front of a judge.

At any rate I have compared the specs of what they are selling against the details of the new law and everything is within acceptable boundaries That's not what this post was for I'm trying to find out if all of the other parts would be the same as in barrel stock trigger assembly I'm trying to find out if all of those parts are interchangeable that's the only purpose of this post but everyone has insisted on turning it into a political bubblegum show and post keep having to get deleted when it is merely a technical and mechanical fitment discussion. But I do see where you're coming from and I appreciate it it's always nice when somebody tries to warn you in case you don't step outside of the law

 

[Elk_Sniper]

This is what the California compliant I built for my son looks like, I imagine Washington is similar. In California you can have a detachable magazine as long as you don't have a pistol grip, flash hider, bayonet, or grenade launcher. Most get around that with those awful 'fin' grips, or go with a fixed magazine, but I went the other way - Thorsden FRS-15 Gen2 'not a pistol grip' fixed stock, with Thorsden buffer tube 'not a butstock' cheek rest, and a AWS muzzle brake. Ok, it looks funny, but the Thorsden stock has the same contour, and feel of the venerable M1 Carbine so it feels very natural.

View attachment 2231636

Thank you somebody that understands what I'm talking about. I see company starting to sell these lower units that have the non-removable magazine built in and what I'm trying to find out is if all of the other parts and pieces around it are the same as a standard AR and are they interchangeable because I don't want to invest into building one and then find out that I have trouble getting parts to put the rest of it together.

 

[NeoBlackdog]

AR-15's are illegal to import, build, and purchase in Washington State, regardless of the cheezy-weasel aftermarket bulltwaddle you do to it. The AR-15 is one of the firearms that is named as verboten. There's no work-around.

 

[tdemore1743x]

Only semi-autos I've seen here in WA lately are all fixed mags and at $1100.

 

[Elk_Sniper]

AR-15's are illegal to import, build, and purchase in Washington State, regardless of the cheezy-weasel aftermarket bulltwaddle you do to it. The AR-15 is one of the firearms that is named as verboten. There's no work-around.

You are partially right but not completely right they are not illegal to build whatsoever it's just illegal to purchase a new non-compliant lower. I've spoke with many local FFL and gun shops and also law enforcement. Like you I spent the last 2 years thinking it was a complete ban, I was wrong there are options and limitations.

 

[lucusloc]

illegal to purchase a new non-compliant lower.

This is the crux. Since this isn't a feature test, it is a directly named test the question is if an AR-15 lower that is missing a feature is still and AR-15 lower or if it is something else. Right now there are people calming it is something else, but this has not been tried in court to my knowledge, nor do I think any state level authority has been asked or signed off on the definition. When this new gimmick does catch the attention of a state level authority I expect there will be legal issues until the courts sort out a definitive answer.

The fact that this is a by name (and any copy) ban is fairly unique to WA now, so we do not really know the extent this law will reach when tested. I highly suspect that WA court will find this to be part of the named class of banned AR-15s, and any further challenge to that will have to go up to federal courts for a constitutional resolution. If you want to be the guy to do that more power to you, someone has to try, but I would not go through with this if you are not prepared to be that trial case, as this looks like you are really asking for it. Remember, it does not matter what your local FFL, CLEO or even ATF agent thinks, it matters what the state prosecutor thinks, as they will be the one to bring a case against you. Has anyone asked them what they think of this device? I bet they have not.

 

[monkeybutler]

You are partially right but not completely right they are not illegal to build whatsoever it's just illegal to purchase a new non-compliant lower. I've spoke with many local FFL and gun shops and also law enforcement. Like you I spent the last 2 years thinking it was a complete ban, I was wrong there are options and limitations.

View attachment 2231815

I would hesitate to use AI for legal advice. It gets lots of details wrong.

 

[PiratePast40]

Welcome to Bizarro World! You are correct that it's a sh$t show. The legislators don't know what they're talking about so the law has become a Kamala Harris/Joe Biden word salad with any meaning a prosecutor would like it it have. They don't know and don't care if it makes sense. They have caused enough fear and uncertainty in law abiding citizens to make it difficult for us. The laws were never about reducing deaths by murder or suicide, it's about control.

Do what you think is in an acceptable risk for you. Don't overthink it and confuse yourself by asking unanswerable questions.

It sounds like you already have your answer, or you're asking the wrong people if the lower manufactured by XYZ company will accept parts from ABC company.

 

[Oxygen Mask]

Easy!
Remove the rail cover.
Remove any heat shield/barrell shroud.
Remove the forward assist plunger thingy.
Rework the shape of that tactical charging handle.
Use mags that do not protrude below the mag well,
Remove that evil looking pistol grip.
Install genuine wood furniture.

When finished it will look something like this:

 

[trukinbear]

Somehow California also names AR-15 as forbidden, but every piece was bought legally in California, and it's legally registered - if you look closely, you'll see it isn't an AR-15, it's a RF-15 (not that is why it legal I'm sure) I believe courts in California ruled that the banned weapons had to meet the strictest criteria to be considered A$#_&lt weapons, hence the featureless build. They defined them as having a pistol grip that extends noticably below the weapon, or a thumbhole stock, adjustable stock, a detachable magazine OR flash hider - you get to pick one, and only one - my son chose detachable magazine, and a not a pistol grip non adjustable fixed stock. No idea how Washington did it's laws, but I was under the impression they followed California's lead on much. What about a build based on SIGs MCX Regulator lower?

MCX-REGULATOR https://share.google/KkYcSoVeUsEpZOAzc

Welcome to Bizarro World! You are correct that it's a sh$t show. The legislators don't know what they're talking about so the law has become a Kamala Harris/Joe Biden word salad with any meaning a prosecutor would like it it have. They don't know and don't care if it makes sense. They have caused enough fear and uncertainty in law abiding citizens to make it difficult for us. The laws were never about reducing deaths by murder or suicide, it's about control.

Do what you think is in an acceptable risk for you. Don't overthink it and confuse yourself by asking unanswerable questions.

It sounds like you already have your answer, or you're asking the wrong people if the lower manufactured by XYZ company will accept parts from ABC company.

 

[orygun]

Easy!
Remove the rail cover.
Remove any heat shield/barrell shroud.
Remove the forward assist plunger thingy.
Rework the shape of that tactical charging handle.
Use mags that do not protrude below the mag well,
Remove that evil looking pistol grip.
Install genuine wood furniture.

When finished it will look something like this:

View attachment 2231983

You Savage! HAR!