Caliber????

[TZS Gunfire]

Hello,
I am trying to decide on what caliber to rebarrel by 30.06. I have a slightly used PAC-NOR barrel around 26" heavy contour with fluting and a B&C M40 style style and Tubb heavy duty recoil lug and ordering TPS base and rings. My question is I am looking at either a 308 which I know is not much difference from the 30.06 or a 300 WinMag but the recoil is what is holding me back. Yes I know I can put a muzzle break on the 300 but I am trying to build a low cost long rang rifle for competition (later down the road) and still be able to hunt and practice without breaking the bank. I already have my plans for my dream rifle but would rather practice and get all the fundmentals down first. Any suggestions?

Read More

 

[tashworth1]

how long range? whats wrong with a custom 30-06 load

 

[Mark W.]

During the month of Sept our club has a open to the public sight in service. I work a bench every weekend. During this time I get to be around a lot of different shooters and firearms. One of the most common among He Man types is the 300 Win Mag. It is also VERY uncommon to find a HE MAN type who wants to shoot one more then a few times to get it sighted in. In fact in a month of weekends over the last couple years I don't think I have seen anyone shoot a full box of 20 rounds. Normally around 10 rounds into it they are having to work themselves up to take another shot.

I have on many occasions shot others .300 Win mags to help get them sighted in. And no one seams to enjoy the recoil. I have seen bruised shoulders and really deep set flinches showing up on the second day.

If you want to practice I suggest you either go to a .308 or stay with a 30-06.

But YMMV

 

[TZS Gunfire]

During the month of Sept our club has a open to the public sight in service. I work a bench every weekend. During this time I get to be around a lot of different shooters and firearms. One of the most common among He Man types is the 300 Win Mag. It is also VERY uncommon to find a HE MAN type who wants to shoot one more then a few times to get it sighted in. In fact in a month of weekends over the last couple years I don't think I have seen anyone shoot a full box of 20 rounds. Normally around 10 rounds into it they are having to work themselves up to take another shot.

I have on many occasions shot others .300 Win mags to help get them sighted in. And no one seams to enjoy the recoil. I have seen bruised shoulders and really deep set flinches showing up on the second day.

If you want to practice I suggest you either go to a .308 or stay with a 30-06.

But YMMV

Thanks for the suggestions. I have heard from a lot of people that they hate the recoil of the 300. I like the 30-06 but I know there is way more load data for the 308 to learn from. As far as the ranges, I would like 500-1000+ for practicing for long range with a a friend of mine who uses a 7mm.

 

[geometro]

I am trying to build a low cost long rang rifle for competition (later down the road) and still be able to hunt and practice without breaking the bank.

The investment cost of the rifles will be about the same regardless of caliber, but if you're going to look at just operating cost and if recoil is an issue for you, then go with a .308.

Otherwise you can stay with the .30-06

Plenty of load data for .308, easier to shoot and cheaper to run than a .300 win mag.

If you reload, you can always go the .260 remington route. Better ballistics than a .308, even a .300 win mag, and even easier to shoot but more expensive OTS ammo.

 

[TZS Gunfire]

The investment cost of the rifles will be about the same regardless of caliber, but if you're going to look at just operating cost and if recoil is an issue for you, then go with a .308.

Otherwise you can stay with the .30-06

Plenty of load data for .308, easier to shoot and cheaper to run than a .300 win mag.

If you reload, you can always go the .260 remington route. Better ballistics than a .308, even a .300 win mag, and even easier to shoot but more expensive OTS ammo.

If I go with the 260 do I need to modify my 700 LA?

 

[Nwcid]

I really like my .300 WM but it does have a MB on it. This gun you can literally hold in one hand and fire and it will stay there. Kicks no more then any of my .223's. Of course the MB is loud but totally worth it IMHO.

Here is an older pic of it when I put a scope I had laying around on it,



Armalite AR-30

 

[geometro]

If I go with the 260 do I need to modify my 700 LA?

You should be able to use the same .30-06 bolt for the .308 and .260 rem since the .260 remington is based on the .308 win case.

If you go to .300 win mag, you'll need a different bolt with a .540 +/- diameter bolt face.

 

[mortre]

I used to have a 300 Win Mag that I thought of building a long range rifle out of once I stopped hunting with it. I ended up selling it instead, and a lot of the reason was recoil. Actually, recoil was why I stopped hunting with it as well.

There is a lot of 30-06 data out there, if you are just rebarreling an existing 30-06, I say stick with 30-06. You already know the feed rails and everything work, I've heard that 308's can become iffy out past 800 with 168's. '06 would give you a little more powder to bump the velocity up without jumping all the way up to 300 recoil.

P.S. Won't he have to shim the mag box for 308 or 260? 30-06 is a long action round (3.340"), while 308 is short action (2.800").

 

[geometro]

There is a lot of 30-06 data out there, if you are just rebarreling an existing 30-06, I say stick with 30-06. You already know the feed rails and everything work, I've heard that 308's can become iffy out past 800 with 168's. '06 would give you a little more powder to bump the velocity up without jumping all the way up to 300 recoil.

Staying with the .30-06 would be the most economical route and the .30-06's ballistics are better than the .308 win...

 

[mortre]

I just looked at a little of hodgdon's load data. Looks like the 30-06 with 190 grain bullets is neck and neck out the gate with the 308 and 175 grain bullets. That should make for a pretty sizable difference at 1,000 yards.

 

[TZS Gunfire]

I thought about staying with the original caliber, I just there was better data for the 308. I have heard the military used the SA of a 308 on a LA. 260 would be nice also. To many choices out there. Whats the barrel life on a 30-06 vs 308 though?

 

[mortre]

308 will have more match grade commercial off the shelf ammo available. But if you roll your own, the only real difference is the casing.
I've never worn out a barrel so I can't comment on barrel life.

 

[TZS Gunfire]

So in your last post, are you saying the 30-06 is better out to 1000 yd?

 

[Mark W.]

A 30-06 will push a heavier bullet then a 308 at the same speed. Or a 30-06 will push the same bullet at a higher speed then the 308.

In either case down range ballistics will favor the 30-06.

Simple as that.

 

[TZS Gunfire]

Thanks the info helps a lot.

 

[mortre]

I just ran 2 loads through the ballistics program on my phone. Just to check remaining velocity @ 1000 yds. This is just a prediction based on G7 drag and current weather conditions pulled by the phone. So standard caveats apply. But here is what it showed.

(308 Win) 175 SMK @ 2600 fps muzzle velocity = 1091 fps @ 1000 yds
(30-06)190 SMK @ 2600 fps = 1203 fps @ 1000 yds

You want to keep your bullets above 1120ish fps (speed of sound) generally speaking. I've never found a local range that allowed me to shoot that far, so all information is theoretical. From what I understand though some bullets will hold their path through the transonic barrier, but a lot do not. Again, that's all from reading, not personal experience. So YMMV.

Warmer temperatures, higher barometric pressure and higher altitude will all help keep retained velocity higher. Once you start stretching ranges there are a lot of variables you have to consider.

 

[TZS Gunfire]

I just ran 2 loads through the ballistics program on my phone. Just to check remaining velocity @ 1000 yds. This is just a prediction based on G7 drag and current weather conditions pulled by the phone. So standard caveats apply. But here is what it showed.

(308 Win) 175 SMK @ 2600 fps muzzle velocity = 1091 fps @ 1000 yds
(30-06)190 SMK @ 2600 fps = 1203 fps @ 1000 yds

You want to keep your bullets above 1120ish fps (speed of sound) generally speaking. I've never found a local range that allowed me to shoot that far, so all information is theoretical. From what I understand though some bullets will hold their path through the transonic barrier, but a lot do not. Again, that's all from reading, not personal experience. So YMMV.

Warmer temperatures, higher barometric pressure and higher altitude will all help keep retained velocity higher. Once you start stretching ranges there are a lot of variables you have to consider.

Thanks, We have a few places here where we can set plates out to over 1200 yards, obviously beyond my capabilities right now.

 

[mortre]

If you have an android based phone or iPhone there is an app called shooter that is a nifty and handy tool.

 

[mountainman53]

I've heard that 168 grain bullet is ideal for the .308, and most commercial match ammo is 168gr. I've also heard that the .308 is inherently more accurate than the '06, gun for gun. To go to a .260 you will have to have your barrel worked over (not sure how they do it--fill in and rebore?) but for a .308 your golden with the barrel as is.