boresnake or one piece carbon rod for bolt action rifle??

[Trailboss]

I am going to save you a lot of work.

I shot my first .22 at the age of four. Fifty three years later, I still consider the caliber my very favorite, and have a weakness much like a cat-lady, in that I cannot resist taking any stray .22 home. If they pooped, my house would be condemned because I could not possibly clean up after all of them.

I shot smallbore competition from the age of eleven to eighteen. My high school team took Second Place in the NRA Regionals (nationwide). This is not to brag, but to set the stage for the best piece of advice you will ever hear about .22's. We invited an Olympic Gold-Medal winner to coach our team for a week. We asked about cleaning (because as young, energetic shooters, we simply KNEW that cleaning our rifles was VERY IMPORTANT.) Here is his reply (paraphrased from memory):

Modern .22 Long Rifle ammunition (and especially quality ammunition) is very scientifically formulated to be very corrosion-free and clean. The bore of a competition rifle that has been fed quality ammunition all its life, kept indoors and never exposed to moisture or the elements of the outdoors need NEVER be cleaned, and in fact, cleaning may damage it. Of course, clean the rest of your rifle, insuring that moving and bearing surfaces are absent of grime and lubricated properly for good operation.

For your field .22's (that may get rain or dirt in the bore from the outdoors regularly), I would recommend a thorough once-a-year cleaning of the bore with solvent and ONLY a nylon brush (NOT A BRONZE OR STAINLESS BRUSH), and only enough brushing to remove the worst of sediment. Then oil lightly, and a dry patch, and put away. For a field gun that is well-cared for, gets no rain in the barrel, muzzle not bounced against dirt or brush or trees, I would go with the target-rifle regimen: NO CLEANING OF THE BORE. Firearms manufacturers most normally use softer steel for .22's than high-powers, and a bronze or steel brush can do damage very quickly to such steel. Of course a rifle that has definitely seen water or dirt in the barrel should be thoroughly cleaned at the earliest opportunity.

Having listened to, and held this information for so many years since, my urge to clean persists, and so I clean all my .22 bores thoroughly (but gently) once a year, regardless of their exposure. Returning from a particularly arduous trip for the gun, I will run an oil patch thru, then a dry patch. This (along with using quality ammo) is a compromise of his advice that soothes my inner urges from my youth.

Pretty good advice here. The one piece I would add is if you live in a humid climate, then the residue can collect moisture and cause rust, so wipe the bore a bit more often after use.

Some other thoughts:

Early firearms (pre-WWII) often used softer steels (though some did use harder steels) and are more susceptable to wear from improper cleaning. Care must be taken.

Later firearms (post WWII) used softer steel in low pressure firearms (.22 S/L/LR and muzzle loaders) and harder steel in higher pressure firearms (center fire rifles), shotguns still used softer steel than most rifles.

Bore guides were developed because it is understood that the last 2 inches (approximately) of the barrel is most suseptable to negatively affecting accuracy if damaged or worn. Around the time that bore guides came into vogue, the Outer's aluminum cleaning rods were in their prime. Here's what happened. Aluminum was quite expensive in the 1800's and early 1900's so it was not used for cleaning rods much. After WWII, it became more plentiful and less expensive and so cleaning rods were produced from it. It was easy to work, easy to thread and cheap overall to machine into a rod. However, aluminum corodes faster than bronze and faster than steel, developing a layer of Aluminum Oxide on the outside. It's not easy to see, looks a lot like a loss of shine when it's light, has a white look to it when it's heavy. Aluminum Oxide has a hardness of approximately 9 on the Moes scale. Diamond being a 10 and corrundum being a 9 as well. Steel is closer to a 5.5-6.0 on the Moe scale though there isn't an exact scale translation between Rockwell (used in metalurgy) and Moe (used in geology). An aluminum rod with a slight amount of AL Oxide on the outside can scratch and wear a bore down quickly. It cuts steel fast. The oxide that forms on the outside of bronze is less hard than Alum Oxide but can wear Pre WWII steel barrels. Steel rods that are not rusty are safer to use than Aluminum and Bronze. Stainless Steel doesn't rust and so you never need to wonder if it will be a problem. The other problem with Aluminum and the modern bore snake as well, is that they both become embedded with metalic fragments over time.

How? Each time you shoot a round, small particles of lead from your bullet are left in the bore. If the bore is not cleaned, these particles eventually oxidize and produce lead oxide. If you use jacketed rounds, you also deposit small amounts of copper, bronze, steel or aluminum from the bullet jacket. What casing you are using also has an impact on particles deposited. The powder burn in the casing erodes a small amount of metal from the casing and deposits some of this in the bore. Again we see nickel, bronze, steel and aluminum particulate. All of these particles along with burned powder residue, embed in the bore snake and over time, oxidize. Producing a highly abrasive device. In the case of the aluminum cleaning rod, the rod is soft enough that it picks up nickle, steel, bronze, zinc and lead particles as they scratch the soft aluminum rod and embed in it. Over time, the particles oxidize along with the alum rod produce another bore scratcher. Any of the steel rods or SS or one of the new coated rods that are designed to resist particles embedding or even one of the steel cable type rods that can be curled up in a loop are all excellent choices.

As far as bronze brushes, there is hard bronze and soft bronze. Soft bronze brushes won't last as long but are soft enough to not damage most bores. Hard bronze can damage a pre WWII bore if it's soft enough. Stainless brushes can scratch most bores but not the new nitrate coated or chrome lined. Stainless brushes are safe in these. Cleaning jags can scratch badly if made from aluminum an should be avoided. Plastic jags are also too soft and pick up oxides. The round bronze jag sized correctly to give enough cleaning patch and dabbed with solvent (hoppes) will do well and won't damage. Don't run your first patch through the bore repeatedly. Push it through and throw it out. Same with the second patch. Once the patch comes out nearly clean, then you can push and pull it repeatedly if desired. If you can clean from the chamber end, do so. Less chance of messing up the part of the bore that is most responsible for accuracy. If you must clean from the crown end, a bore guide will keep the rod centered and away from the rifling.

Keep your powder dry.

 

[Spitpatch]

Don't be skeered, Jacketed. I am certain what Otter tried to convey was not that Bore Snakes are useless. They are just no substitute for a thorough cleaning with a brush and patch. Actually, I think Bore Snakes are a pretty darned good idea, as long as they are NOT utilized in the belief that one has accomplished a complete cleaning.

They might actually be the very perfect solution for what I am doing now with my .22's: Zip the Bore Snake through after a shooting session (or hunting trip) and put the gun away. Once a year, ream and steam it with a sovent brush and patch (rod guide or extreme care utilized, as per Gil Sengel's article).

Another advantage I see with the Bore Snake, is that a heckuvalot of guys who used to almost NEVER clean their rifle bores are at least giving them SOME care now, due to the ease of using a Bore Snake.

As for your ammo choice, as long as you stay with a top brand of "bulk" (and I prefer the copper-plated bullets over the exposed lead ones), you should be good to go. Toward your gun "taking an accuracy hit" from lack of cleaning, the very point of that Olympic Champion's reply was that accuracy will NOT suffer, and in fact may be ENHANCED by avoiding vigorous and repeated cleaning. I'd suggest you try it for yourself: Ignore your .22 bore for a few hard sessions and see if accuracy drops off from what it was during the first session. Then clean it thoroughly, and see what you get.

 

[slicediceputinrice]

by asking questions like this all you are doing is opening the door for a bunch of biased opinions, people who only use boresnakes will tell you to use one and curse rods, people who only use rods will swear by the rod and say screw the snake. You should get both and find out for yourself which one works better or which one you prefer to use. If you cant afford both then I suggest donating plasma or mowing your neighbors lawn for the extra money. Then you can use both and report back to this site on which worked better for you!

or even better yet you could acquire both rod and snake then go to the range with two .22 rifles and shoot the same amount of the same ammo out of each one and clean one with the rod and one with the snake, when you are done cleaning run a patch down each bore and see which one is cleaner, record it all with a cellphone camera and upload to youtube to become a youtube gun enthusiast sensation

 

[Spitpatch]

Geez, slice! Where did that come from? Can I get you something?

Y'all nee ta mufrickin' chill, man. Y'all runnin way too hot! Y'all nee ta back off ma man, Jacketed, no whut ahm sayin?

 

[slicediceputinrice]

Geez, slice! Where did that come from? Can I get you something?

Y'all nee ta mufrickin' chill, man. Y'all runnin way too hot! Y'all nee ta back off ma man, Jacketed, no whut ahm sayin?

lol, I gave him great advice, such as....try both and report back, make a video out of it, opinions are not facts, how to make a couple extra bucks if your low on funds. I dont see anything wrong with that

 

[Jacketed]

by asking questions like this all you are doing is opening the door for a bunch of biased opinions, people who only use boresnakes will tell you to use one and curse rods, people who only use rods will swear by the rod and say screw the snake. You should get both and find out for yourself which one works better or which one you prefer to use. If you cant afford both then I suggest donating plasma or mowing your neighbors lawn for the extra money. Then you can use both and report back to this site on which worked better for you!

or even better yet you could acquire both rod and snake then go to the range with two .22 rifles and shoot the same amount of the same ammo out of each one and clean one with the rod and one with the snake, when you are done cleaning run a patch down each bore and see which one is cleaner, record it all with a cellphone camera and upload to youtube to become a youtube gun enthusiast sensation

Sure only if I get a job at the Remington R&D )

 

[Spitpatch]

lol, I gave him great advice, such as....try both and report back, make a video out of it, opinions are not facts, how to make a couple extra bucks if your low on funds. I dont see anything wrong with that

Okay, (searching now, so give slack):

Harsh, Dude.

 

[Velzey]

Neither one, get yourself an Otis cleaning kit and never look back!

 

[Otter]

The Otis kit is an improvement over the Boresnake, but unless you plan to thread that cable down the bore of your rifle quite a few times, you will never get it as clean as you can with a rod/brush/patch job.

Nobody has touched on how clean a barrel needs to be. I'm not sure with my factory rifles a complete cleaning with a rod/brush/patch improves accuracy over a Boresnake. All I know for sure is it gets it a lot cleaner. With the two custom target rifles I have with Kreiger barrels, accuracy tends to drop off after 25-30 rounds. Cleaning with a Boresnake does nothing to bring the accuracy back; only a complete cleaning with a rod will.

Something else not brought up is the carbon ring that forms just in front of the chamber. This ring starts to form after about 100-200 rounds. Only way I know it is there is by the feel of a brush when I pull it back through the barrel. You can feel the constriction as a result of that carbon ring. Only way I know of to get it out is to use a rod/nylon brush and JB bore cleaning compound (or some other similar mechincal cleaning compound). This carbon ring will form in my factory barrels, and accuracy will drop off. Once I remove that ring, accuracy will return.

 

[billt]

I've seen 3 people at my local club break them off inside the barrel. They are becoming somewhat well known for this. Two of the guys couldn't get them out, and had to call it a day. One guy and I struggled for the better part of an hour, and used up half a can of WD-40, pushing and soaking it before getting it out of his AR.

If you feel the need to go to a pull through system, the Otis models use a vinyl coated steel cable with threaded tips and brushes, which is far more sturdy and will not break. Most of the Hoppe's Bore Snakes, (including the three I saw break), were older, and obviously beyond their service life. What generally happens is the solvents attack the integrity of the Nylon cord these things are manufactured from. That's generally when they let go.

I don't see a need for them because I clean thoroughly after each range session. I think the whole "pull from the breech" sales angle used with these things is highly overrated. If you use a good, one piece, coated cleaning rod like a Dewey, and know what you are doing, cleaning from the muzzle is not detrimental to any firearm.

Personally, for cleaning a sixgun, I think they would be a total PITA. Trying to run that thing through all six chambers would involve a lot of fumbling around. With a short rod you would be finished with all six chambers in the time it would take you to pull it through one. To me running a brush and patches both ways dislodges far more crud than all of this "pull through only" nonsense they employ to sell these things. This is a case of a company coming up with a product that has some limited use, but has to offset proven methods which have been successfully employed for decades, in order to sell it. I put "barrel break in's" into much the same category.

 

[Spitpatch]

Again: I see the boresnake as a product that has a place: quick, "convenient" (quotation marks in deference to some hangups mentioned), but not thorough cleaning. As an old school "rod,brush,patch" guy, I DO have some boresnakes around, and I DO use them.

They are a partner and component to my extensive cleaning kit, not a replacement.