Barrel life?

[Lesliet]

So, I just finished reading Elmer Keith's " Sixguns". In it, he claims that a barrel is inevitably worn out by shooting 5000 rounds of jacketed ammunition through it. I generally only shoot plated, or coated lead, and my barrels seem to be in good shape after a lot of rounds downrange. The Sig p320 I use for competition probably has about 15 k rounds on the barrel, and no obvious signs of wear. Keith claimed that after 5k rounds of jacketed through the revolvers and autopistols of his day, you could see significant wear on the rifling starting at the chamber end.

I am curious, of those who shoot jacketed bullets extensively, what are your round counts and observed wear? I wonder if the metallurgy has gotten better since then, causing barrels to last longer?

Feedback appreciated.

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[P7M13]

CZ75B, 40S&W. No idea on barrel metallurgy. Has >20K rounds, probably 2K were moly coated, the rest jacketed.
The barrel & chamber look great. The top of the barrel that the slide rubs against when returning to battery has an elliptical shape. The trigger take-up spring is weak now.

 

[galleyjoe]

So, I just finished reading Elmer Keith's " Sixguns". In it, he claims that a barrel is inevitably worn out by shooting 5000 rounds of jacketed ammunition through it. I generally only shoot plated, or coated lead, and my barrels seem to be in good shape after a lot of rounds downrange. The Sig p320 I use for competition probably has about 15 k rounds on the barrel, and no obvious signs of wear. Keith claimed that after 5k rounds of jacketed through the revolvers and autopistols of his day, you could see significant wear on the rifling starting at the chamber end.

I am curious, of those who shoot jacketed bullets extensively, what are your round counts and observed wear? I wonder if the metallurgy has gotten better since then, causing barrels to last longer?

Feedback appreciated.

80,000 as a rule of thumb on hand guns.

 

[Knute]

Excellent book...one of my collection too, and mine has the later revision that included the "new" 44 magnum section. To your question, I've never run a firearm more than 7-8k with copper and that was out of a S&W model 29, built in 2012 that had no noticeable wear on the lands or cone area.

I believe your suspicions about barrel metallurgy are correct as the industry moved toward jacketed bullets.

 

[galleyjoe]

Excellent book...one of my collection too, and mine has the later revision that included the "new" 44 magnum section. To your question, I've never run a firearm more than 7-8k with copper and that was out of a S&W model 29, built in 2012 that had no noticeable wear on the lands or cone area.

I believe your suspicions about barrel metallurgy are correct as the industry moved toward jacketed bullets.

yes sir. the M9 beretta barrel held up to that 80,000

 

[Medic!]

yes sir. the M9 beretta barrel held up to that 80,000

Old Elmer could only dream of chrome lining.

 

[galleyjoe]

Old Elmer could only dream of chrome lining.

yes sir.

 

[jbett98]

Didn't he like hot loads?

 

[Wood Worker]

Elmer did seem load everything to the max and beyond, I would think that his revolvers had stretched frames with a bigger gap to the forcing cone, or such a cut into the top strap from the blast after 5000 rounds that they needed an display case home too.

 

[Lesliet]

Seemed like he was a big fan of 2400 powder and some pretty spicy loadings, yes.

 

[edzz]

Didn't he like hot loads?

Define "like".

 

[Pete F]

So, I just finished reading Elmer Keith's " Sixguns". In it, he claims that a barrel is inevitably worn out by shooting 5000 rounds of jacketed ammunition through it. I generally only shoot plated, or coated lead, and my barrels seem to be in good shape after a lot of rounds downrange. The Sig p320 I use for competition probably has about 15 k rounds on the barrel, and no obvious signs of wear. Keith claimed that after 5k rounds of jacketed through the revolvers and autopistols of his day, you could see significant wear on the rifling starting at the chamber end.

I am curious, of those who shoot jacketed bullets extensively, what are your round counts and observed wear? I wonder if the metallurgy has gotten better since then, causing barrels to last longer?

Feedback appreciated.

Which edition, 1961 or the updated 1996?

 

[Lesliet]

It was in the updated edition. I've gotta say, he definitely got the idea planted in my head that I should have a 4-5" .44 mag revolver. Need to get an 8-shooter for competition, first, though.

I saw on another forum talking about Sig p320 pistols, that barrel life expectancy is about 100k rounds. That's a lot more reasonable, in my mind, than 5k. I mean, that's not even three months, when I am training hard. If I had to replace a worn barrel every 4-5 years, though, I can live with that as just one of the expenses of the game.

Man, I wish there was an electronic edition of Ed McGivern's book... it's a lot harder to read paper in the dark!

 

[2Wheels4Ever]

I had a no dash 686 (1980s manufacture date) that I bought many years ago. It was a well-used gun when I bought it, and I personally put over 3k rounds through it. The barrel looked perfect and it still shot like a laser when I sold it.

There is a pretty famous gun youtuber called Hickok45 that used a Model 29 for competition. He still has the same gun and has stated he has over 70,000 rounds through it and counting. He still shoots it very accurately; I've never heard him say the barrel had lost any accuracy.

 

[Spitpatch]

Barrel care and maintenance are at least as important as number of rounds through the barrel. Abuse and neglect are always the prime suspects toward a barrel exhibiting signs of end-life.

 

[tac]

Two three four examples of long life barrels -

My 1986 Krico has had around five hundred rounds of FMJ down it every year since 2002. Before that it had had ca. 8000 logged. It still shoots raggedy hole five-shot 100m groups around 5/8th inches.

A 1916 Schmidt-Rubin had untold rounds down it every year from then until 1936, when it was bought as a private rifle out of service. Between then and 1989, who knows how many shots it fired? All I know is that I've put about 9000 through it since then. Still shoots 1.5" groups of five at 100m.

A 1944 K31 with an unknown number of rounds down it until an arsenal make-over that got it a new bolt shroud with an EPN serial number.

Whatever, since 1989 is has had well north of 9000 rounds through it, and yesterday it put thirty shots in a 1" hole at 100m.

A Ruger Old Army was a birthday gift to me, from me, in 1986. Sometimes it only shoots about 48 shots at a session, but on a guest day it will go through at least double that, maybe even more. Sooooooooooo, 15 - 18 thousand shots?

Care and attention to the barrel is what matters, IMO.

Shoot it - then clean it.

 

[ma96782]

You wanna see some barrel wear?

Well, you know that place that rents firearms to people to "try out". Ask the renter which firearm has seen "some hard use/better days". Make sure it's unloaded. Then, try taking a look down the barrel.

Yup......I've seen the Elephant.
Actually, I was looking down the barrel of an M16 that the PD used for qualifications.

And YES.....even handgun barrels will wear. Though the observation(s) of barrel wear is less noticeable when using a steady diet of lead bullets.

Not to mention the wear from cleaning.

Aloha, Mark

 

[GunInEachHand]

Not only is the metallurgy better, but the gun powder is significantly better too. I also suspect that bullet makers are using different alloying coppers for the jackets from years ago. Either a more pure version, or somehow less abrasive to the barrel itself.
I suspect the biggest shift lies in the gun powder itself. The almost defunct 10mm magnum revolvers would see signs of flame cutting from the burning powder after a few hundred rounds. The variety of gun powders available nowadays is almost mind boggling.
If memory serves, Keith also blew up quite a few 38 specials in development of the 357 mag. So he wasn't exactly... user friendly shall we say to the firearm.

 

[JuglansRegia]

Rifle barrels and pistol barrels, two different things. A rifle barrel in common calibers like .223 and 308, 5,000-10,000 depending on what your definition of worn out is. Pistol barrels, at least 50,000 closer to 100,000 maybe as much as 150-200K, I read some story of an ammo manufacturer that has 250k+ through a USP 45, I am sure to get there they had to replace some other parts, and just because it still shoots, doesn't mean it shoots good.