Barrel tuners for rimfire?

[Member 34319]

So give me the skinny on these?

Im looking at them and can't for the life of me figure out how the hell these are so expensive.

EC Tuner Thread Adapters | Cortina Precision

This EC Tuner thread adapter allows you to run EC Tuner on your 1/2-28, 5/8-24, 3/4-24 threaded barrel. Perfect for rimfire, hunting, or even competition barrels where brakes are not required. The thread adapter has flats on it that allow you to set it tight on your barrel. The flats are...

www.shootsmallgroups.com

EC Tuner V2 | Cortina Precision

Over a decade ago, I introduced the original EC Tuner. The EC Tuner provided an easy and efficient way to adjust your tuner because it was a tool less design. The original EC Tuner uses tension screws to create enough drag that the tuner will stay put after adjusting, but still allows the user...

www.shootsmallgroups.com

These two alone are $245!!!

Are they not essentially a fancy nut attached to the end of the barrel that can be rotated to shift its weight slightly?

Would love to hear any opinions and results of those that have them.

Thanks!

Reno

Read More

 

[wombatz]

I am confused. They seem to be $75.

Edit: now I get $155.00 – $170.00 from the second link.

 

[ORhutner]

Some good data out on rimfire tuners from Bryan Litz or if you want to go down the rabbit hole just google Bryan Litz rimfire tuners. I have recently seen a couple videos where top NRL22 shooters are ditching them because the minimal gains require you to chase the tuner setting. The examples I watched the complaint was having to validate your tuner setting prior to every match as environmental and external ballistic factors were impacting the benefits of the tuner.

I have no personal experience with tuners but found the debate to be interesting enough to read some of the information available online. I think you would see more benefit out of those dollars by sending your rifle in to Lapua or Eley for lot testing to your rifle. That was another point which was made is that if you don't have a substantial amount of the same lot of ammo you will struggle getting any benefit out of the tuner unless you are going to chase whatever ammo you are shooting that day.

 

[ORhutner]

You can probably already tell from my post that I am biased after my information gathering towards them being of marginal or no benefit for most users but hopefully some of that info points you in the right direction to go gather your own information and form an independent opinion on their use case for you.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

So give me the skinny on these?

Im looking at them and can't for the life of me figure out how the hell these are so expensive.

EC Tuner Thread Adapters | Cortina Precision

This EC Tuner thread adapter allows you to run EC Tuner on your 1/2-28, 5/8-24, 3/4-24 threaded barrel. Perfect for rimfire, hunting, or even competition barrels where brakes are not required. The thread adapter has flats on it that allow you to set it tight on your barrel. The flats are...

www.shootsmallgroups.com

EC Tuner V2 | Cortina Precision

Over a decade ago, I introduced the original EC Tuner. The EC Tuner provided an easy and efficient way to adjust your tuner because it was a tool less design. The original EC Tuner uses tension screws to create enough drag that the tuner will stay put after adjusting, but still allows the user...

www.shootsmallgroups.com

These two alone are $245!!!

Are they not essentially a fancy nut attached to the end of the barrel that can be rotated to shift its weight slightly?

Would love to hear any opinions and results of those that have them.

Thanks!

Reno

I don't understand how these work. How does it "tune".

 

[Member 34319]

I don't understand how these work. How does it "tune".

Barrel harmonics. It puts a bit of weight at the right place on the muzzle to do voodoo magic and groups tighten up. I really don't get it either but I've seen it in action. Guy was working one at the range and walked in his groups after finding the right spot with the tuner. Kind of why I wanted to start the thread. Other than watching him shoot his, which is the above two products, I started looking into them. From my understanding they are just a weight basically on threads that are fine enough to move the weight thousandths of an inch at a time.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Barrel harmonics. It puts a bit of weight at the right place on the muzzle to do voodoo magic and groups tighten up. I really don't get it either but I've seen it in action. Guy was working one at the range and walked in his groups after finding the right spot with the tuner. Kind of why I wanted to start the thread. Other than watching him shoot his, which is the above two products, I started looking into them. From my understanding they are just a weight basically on threads that are fine enough to move the weight thousandths of an inch at a time.

Interesting thx. Someday I'm going to try fire lapping to (maybe) increase accuracy on one of two identical 22 bolt action rifles I have. Totally different of course but I get trying to squeak out every bit of mechanical accuracy possible. I wonder why the weights are only on the end of the barrel. Maybe it has most effect there. Seems like weights hung on other sections of the barrel would affect this too but I don't know a damn thing about it. Makes me think maybe suppressors and muzzle brakes might have an effect this way too (positive or negative I mean) due to weight, not just due to redirecting gasses.

 

[Member 34319]

Interesting thx. Someday I'm going to try fire lapping to (maybe) increase accuracy on one of two identical 22 bolt action rifles I have. Totally different of course but I get trying to squeak out every bit of mechanical accuracy possible. I wonder why the weights are only on the end of the barrel. Maybe it has most effect there. Seems like weights hung on other sections of the barrel would affect this too but I don't know a damn thing about it. Makes me think maybe suppressors and muzzle brakes might have an effect this way too (positive or negative I mean) due to weight, not just due to redirecting gasses.

Well, I did test out a few suppressors and now know that it negatively affects my 457. I shot tighter groups bare muzzle (thread protector).

I watched a video of a guy that bought this and did it himself slowly walking it back using a mic. Seems like a ghetto way to start. I'm curious if the circumference makes a difference or if weights or some sort of dampening material can be placed on the barrel at certain places to do the same thing?

 

[Member 34319]

Helps if I add the link to "this"

https://a.co/d/1zcTN0z

 

[Ben B.]

I used them when I was into rimfire BR, 15 yrs ago. IIRC, Hoehn tuners were the hot ticket back then. YES, they are a weight that is finely adjustable fore & aft. The heavier & stiffer the barrel was, the heavier you needed the tuner to be to get results. Yes, once you find the right setting, they seem to reduce muzzle movement at time of bullet exit, and thereby tighten groups. The settings were repeatable on re-test, and there was more than one setting that worked, but it seemed like one setting worked the best. As I recall, neither I nor the group I shot with ever found benefit in changing tuner settings in a match, it was better to change ammo for conditions. As I recall, the settings were either not sensitive to ammo, or not real sensitive, but that could be an artifact of selecting ammo lots that shot well on the "already known good setting". Testing tuners required a lot of tedious work and used up expensive ammo from your limited supply, so retesting tuners on ammo test lots wasn't appealing.

I think they make no sense whatsoever unless you are doing some sort of bench game/extreme accuracy quest. On a field rifle, or other realistic rifle, you could play with those rubber tuner things that resemble a French tickler, but I wouldn't. I'd just find better ammo.

 

[Member 34319]

I used them when I was into rimfire BR, 15 yrs ago. IIRC, Hoehn tuners were the hot ticket back then. YES, they are a weight that is finely adjustable fore & aft. The heavier & stiffer the barrel was, the heavier you needed the tuner to be to get results. Yes, once you find the right setting, they seem to reduce muzzle movement at time of bullet exit, and thereby tighten groups. The settings were repeatable on re-test, and there was more than one setting that worked, but it seemed like one setting worked the best. As I recall, neither I nor the group I shot with ever found benefit in changing tuner settings in a match, it was better to change ammo for conditions. As I recall, the settings were either not sensitive to ammo, or not real sensitive, but that could be an artifact of selecting ammo lots that shot well on the "already known good setting". Testing tuners required a lot of tedious work and used up expensive ammo from your limited supply, so retesting tuners on ammo test lots wasn't appealing.

I think they make no sense whatsoever unless you are doing some sort of bench game/extreme accuracy quest. On a field rifle, or other realistic rifle, you could play with those rubber tuner things that resemble a French tickler, but I wouldn't. I'd just find better ammo.

Thanks for writing this up. This is the experience I was looking for.

I've been wanting to try more expensive ammo. It is becoming harder to find than I recall it being.

 

[oremike]

A penny tech tip is to free float your barrel by sliding a dollar bill( some say a cigarette paper) between the barrel and fore grip then sanding down the high spots with a wood dowel and sand paper.

 

[Ben B.]

I've been wanting to try more expensive ammo. It is becoming harder to find than I recall it being.

Benchrest Shooting Equipment | Killough Shooting Sports

Stay prepared for benchrest shooting competitions with the latest range of benchrest shooting equipment. Same day dispatch on orders before 2 pm.

www.killoughshootingsports.com

It's out there. The question is: How bad do you want it?

 

[Member 34319]

Benchrest Shooting Equipment | Killough Shooting Sports

Stay prepared for benchrest shooting competitions with the latest range of benchrest shooting equipment. Same day dispatch on orders before 2 pm.

www.killoughshootingsports.com

It's out there. The question is: How bad do you want it?

I guess enough to justify asking those here about where to find it.

At $20 per 50. I'd be at $40-60 a NRL22 match. Plus the entry @ $5. $45-$65 for a days worth of competition isn't too horrible knowing it's some of the best ammo you can get in a competition where ammo is extremely crucial.

 

[Ben B.]

We usually ordered Eley test kits and cases from Bob Collins, Killough was just coming on when I bowed out. It looks like there are significantly more Eley distributors than there were when I was in the game.

A few months ago I talked to a guy I used to do RFBR with, he says he now drives to AZ and tests Lapua ammo from his rifle in Lapua's tunnel and then buys a few cases, and is fine for a few years.

 

[Member 34319]

We usually ordered Eley test kits and cases from Bob Collins, Killough was just coming on when I bowed out. It looks like there are significantly more Eley distributors than there were when I was in the game.

A few months ago I talked to a guy I used to do RFBR with, he says he now drives to AZ and tests Lapua ammo from his rifle in Lapua's tunnel and then buys a few cases, and is fine for a few years.

Ya, kind of reminds me of track nights back in Fallon NV. We raced are silly slow cars, but those that drove all the way to the other side of Reno before heading in the complete opposite direction to fill up with E85 always outedged us by the slightest.

I get why those that go out of the way do so, it's obvious at matches.

 

[Hueco]

You keep going down this road, I expect we'll see you rocking a tuned up vudoo at nationals.

 

[Member 34319]

You keep going down this road, I expect we'll see you rocking a tuned up vudoo at nationals.

Can't afford that. Its also the turbo civic vs v8 mustang debate that always gets me.

With a better barrel my CZ457 should be pretty darn competitive to the Vudoo. Ive seen what a Vudoo can and can not do. It's not that much better to justify a complete 180 vs better barrel and ammo, which is essentially what I would be getting, plus the bells and whistles included when getting a Vudoo. I just started with the Civic, bolted on the bells and whistles with the CZ.

It's like your CZ, if it sucks, it sucks because the ammo sucks, not the gun. You've got the same if not more into yours than a starting Vudoo.

 

[Ben B.]

I was in my 30s when I had the right combination of money and time to spend on foolishness, and bought a 10/22T, which at the time seemed like an extravagant purchase. Went to a range with a 4x BiMart scope and the 2nd cheapest brick of .22s to get sighted in, was pretty pleased with myself. Then a guy told me it was good but "not what those benchresters can do" and handed me a box of Wolf MT to try. Holy Smokes, what a difference! Went home and started looking for info on good .22 ammo and benchrest, which started me down the rabbit hole of a young man in an old man's gear game, which took me 5 years to exit.

 

[Hueco]

Can't afford that. Its also the turbo civic vs v8 mustang debate that always gets me.

With a better barrel my CZ457 should be pretty darn competitive to the Vudoo. Ive seen what a Vudoo can and can not do. It's not that much better to justify a complete 180 vs better barrel and ammo, which is essentially what I would be getting, plus the bells and whistles included when getting a Vudoo. I just started with the Civic, bolted on the bells and whistles with the CZ.

It's like your CZ, if it sucks, it sucks because the ammo sucks, not the gun. You've got the same if not more into yours than a starting Vudoo.

Never had a civvy but did throw a supercharger on a Saturn once. Fun car - liked the experience of bolting on, swapping some internals, and doing a tune. Was it a V8? Nah. But it did 20mph to 120 quite zippy.

That's how I see the cz. Lot of rabbit holes gone down from varying up the head spacing 1/1000 at a time to adjusting action screw torque a bit here and there between groups.

I thought about the barrel tuner - but the gun is already more accurate than me and the biggest difference still seems to come down to ammo. The Wolf has been good - but I'm almost out of it and my SK stash…it'll be time to test some more soon.