AZ new concealed carry law!!!! No permit?

[tionico]

I wonder if it also applies to full auto firearms. I'd move tomorrow Montana explicitly removed full auto from their FFA legislation.

that decision was probably quite wise. Had they not done, BATF would surely have their knickers well knotted, and be in overdrive to suppress Montana.. likely pulling ALL FFL licenses within the state....

so, they left it with the FFA only, knowing full well that, should the Feds elect to give them a pass, they'd be able to add that in as an ammendment in the next couple of years. If BATF is beat on the intrastate transfer of arms they'd also be beat on full auto/select-fire weapons as well.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

that decision was probably quite wise. Had they not done, BATF would surely have their knickers well knotted, and be in overdrive to suppress Montana.. likely pulling ALL FFL licenses within the state....

so, they left it with the FFA only, knowing full well that, should the Feds elect to give them a pass, they'd be able to add that in as an ammendment in the next couple of years. If BATF is beat on the intrastate transfer of arms they'd also be beat on full auto/select-fire weapons as well.

I was ticked at first over this, but then I cooled down and thought it out as you have. We did not lose our liberties overnight and unless we rise up in armed rebellion we will not gain them back overnight. The commies have eaten away at our Republic, we'll have to put it back together piece by piece

After 35 or so states tell the feds to go pack sand on semis and such, then states can begin to overturn the 1934 and 1968 acts with state soverenity and solidarity

 

[yubariver]

Ummm???



It is a privilege to drive a car, baring arms is a right do they not know that!!

Why is it a privilege to drive a car? We are supposed to be free to travel
at will as citizens. Who decided a car is now a privilege?

 

[tionico]

Why is it a privilege to drive a car? We are supposed to be free to travel
at will as citizens. Who decided a car is now a privilege?

some arcane logic that decided since a car is heavy and could be deadly, one must be registered to own and/or operate one. The same was true of horses, mules, railroads, boats..... courts have decided car ownership and operation are priviledges, methinks to enable the states to turn control of them into a source of revenue. Even to the point of the final disposal of the now-defunct hunk of metal formerly known as "the family car" when its time to send it to China to turn into pipe, toasters, steel rebar..... or more cars.


As always, follow the money. They are merely trying to apply the same stinking thinking to arms... and our right to have and carry them about. We must not let them. If the Bill of Rights had specifically mentioned horses and our freedom to own/use them, it would be a clearer case to exempt cars and drivers from the confiscatory regulations surrounding them. I do not recall one instance where either a horse or a rider needed to petition the government and/or pay a fee to have/use his steed. But I think the first requirements for car or driver registration/fees started in the mid teens.... commercial vessels have always had to have an "official number" and be registered.... but that was a one time deal, and cost very little. BUT-- that is for commercial vessels, those plying a trade. It would be sort of like a one-time registration for highway trucks today.

 

[phathom]

Why is it a privilege to drive a car? We are supposed to be free to travel
at will as citizens. Who decided a car is now a privilege?

You do have the right to freely travel, You can walk, ride a bike, take the bus, get a ride from someone. You are free to travel, but owning a driving a car is a privilege.
You pay for that privilege and the roads to drive on with the money you pay for your license and registration. A car is no good without any road to drive it on. Sure you can have your own private island and your own car and not have to pay fees to anyone, but you make your own roads to do it in.

Go get yourself a DUI, see how quickly you're "right" to drive is taken away. It's a privilege to drive a car.

 

[gogoDawgs]

You do have the right to freely travel, You can walk, ride a bike, take the bus, get a ride from someone. You are free to travel, but owning a driving a car is a privilege.
You pay for that privilege and the roads to drive on with the money you pay for your license and registration. A car is no good without any road to drive it on. Sure you can have your own private island and your own car and not have to pay fees to anyone, but you make your own roads to do it in.

Go get yourself a DUI, see how quickly you're "right" to drive is taken away. It's a privilege to drive a car.

Actually public roads are the privilege provided by the government for the collective good in this case. (See the Constitution for post roads and interstate commerce) You may purchase and drive a car on your own property drunk if you so choose, it will not be a crime. Doing it on a public road however is a different story.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Why is it a privilege to drive a car? We are supposed to be free to travel
at will as citizens. Who decided a car is now a privilege?

Traitors in black robes

 

[Blitzkrieg]

some arcane logic that decided since a car is heavy and could be deadly, one must be registered to own and/or operate one. The same was true of horses, mules, railroads, boats..... courts have decided car ownership and operation are priviledges, methinks to enable the states to turn control of them into a source of revenue. Even to the point of the final disposal of the now-defunct hunk of metal formerly known as "the family car" when its time to send it to China to turn into pipe, toasters, steel rebar..... or more cars.


As always, follow the money. They are merely trying to apply the same stinking thinking to arms... and our right to have and carry them about. We must not let them. If the Bill of Rights had specifically mentioned horses and our freedom to own/use them, it would be a clearer case to exempt cars and drivers from the confiscatory regulations surrounding them. I do not recall one instance where either a horse or a rider needed to petition the government and/or pay a fee to have/use his steed. But I think the first requirements for car or driver registration/fees started in the mid teens.... commercial vessels have always had to have an "official number" and be registered.... but that was a one time deal, and cost very little. BUT-- that is for commercial vessels, those plying a trade. It would be sort of like a one-time registration for highway trucks today.

I think the same founder's reasoning applied to the 2nd Amendment where it specifies "arms" and not "rifles and handguns". We have the literal right to own any weapons we can afford.. of course we know what the termites within our nation have done to that right

The Founders assumed this sort of thing would never happen to us if we remained vigilant. Even an amendment mentioning horses/wagons would be trashed by our resident termites. It is our fault for not staying engaged and allowing the termites to run amok

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Actually public roads are the privilege provided by the government for the collective good in this case. (See the Constitution for post roads and interstate commerce) You may purchase and drive a car on your own property drunk if you so choose, it will not be a crime. Doing it on a public road however is a different story.

Cops will arrest you in your own driveway if you are intoxicated

As taxpayers we all own the public roads so that does not wash for me

 

[yubariver]

You do have the right to freely travel, You can walk, ride a bike, take the bus, get a ride from someone. You are free to travel, but owning a driving a car is a privilege.
You pay for that privilege and the roads to drive on with the money you pay for your license and registration. A car is no good without any road to drive it on. Sure you can have your own private island and your own car and not have to pay fees to anyone, but you make your own roads to do it in.

Go get yourself a DUI, see how quickly you're "right" to drive is taken away. It's a privilege to drive a car.

I pay a lot of taxes for roads that do not come from car registration etc.
If you only rode a bicycle you would still be paying a lot of taxes for roads.

There is no bus, train or bike paths where I live. Only highway. So no,
I can't just ride other methods of transportation.

Elite snob.

 

[tionico]

You do have the right to freely travel, You can walk, ride a bike, take the bus, get a ride from someone. You are free to travel, but owning a driving a car is a privilege.
You pay for that privilege and the roads to drive on with the money you pay for your license and registration. A car is no good without any road to drive it on. Sure you can have your own private island and your own car and not have to pay fees to anyone, but you make your own roads to do it in.

Go get yourself a DUI, see how quickly you're "right" to drive is taken away. It's a privilege to drive a car.

registration and driving licenses do NOT pay for roads.... they barely support the beaurocracy created to handle the paperwork and record keeping. Fuel and property taxes pay for the roads... and this IS a legitimate function of government, and has been since at least the Constitution. Besides, how often does anyone walk, ride a bus, bicycle, horse and buggy (think of the Amish) without using the public roads paid for by fuel and property taxes? Can't hardly do it.

As far as getting a DUI and losing your RIGHT to drive.... you've proven yourself irresponsible by driving snockered. Thus you are denied your RIGHT to drive on the public roads. It is exactly the same thing with firearms..... rob a bank with a sixgun, you forfeit your right to bear arms.... and vote..... and freely move about for a season (you'll almost certainly have ample opportunity to familiarise yourself with the back side of those long skinnny grey things at the local Greybar Hotel). WHY? You've proven yourself too irresponsible to exercise your RIGHT to keep and bear arms.... or, in the former case, drive.

It was not always so... when my Dad turned twelve, his Dad took him down to the courthouse in Churchill County, Nevada, and told the clerk there at the desk My son here is twelve years old today, and we'd like to get his driving license. The clerk took out a small piece of paper, filled in his name, where they lived, birthdate and place of birth..... Grandpa handed the clerk a quarter, they took the license and went home. Dad was now legal to drive.(two years later, he was THE schoolbus driver.... and he carried his .22 rifle with him nearly every day ON the bus.

Ya think a few things have changed since then? Have they REALLY changed for the better?

 

[yubariver]

registration and driving licenses do NOT pay for roads.... they barely support the beaurocracy created to handle the paperwork and record keeping. Fuel and property taxes pay for the roads... and this IS a legitimate function of government, and has been since at least the Constitution. Besides, how often does anyone walk, ride a bus, bicycle, horse and buggy (think of the Amish) without using the public roads paid for by fuel and property taxes? Can't hardly do it.

As far as getting a DUI and losing your RIGHT to drive.... you've proven yourself irresponsible by driving snockered. Thus you are denied your RIGHT to drive on the public roads. It is exactly the same thing with firearms..... rob a bank with a sixgun, you forfeit your right to bear arms.... and vote..... and freely move about for a season (you'll almost certainly have ample opportunity to familiarise yourself with the back side of those long skinnny grey things at the local Greybar Hotel). WHY? You've proven yourself too irresponsible to exercise your RIGHT to keep and bear arms.... or, in the former case, drive.

It was not always so... when my Dad turned twelve, his Dad took him down to the courthouse in Churchill County, Nevada, and told the clerk there at the desk My son here is twelve years old today, and we'd like to get his driving license. The clerk took out a small piece of paper, filled in his name, where they lived, birthdate and place of birth..... Grandpa handed the clerk a quarter, they took the license and went home. Dad was now legal to drive.(two years later, he was THE schoolbus driver.... and he carried his .22 rifle with him nearly every day ON the bus.

Ya think a few things have changed since then? Have they REALLY changed for the better?

This.

 

[phathom]

This.

Agreed, on all but the right to drive. Show me anywhere in writing that it says you have the right to drive a vehicle. I can show you a piece of paper that says we have the right to bear arms, I can also show you a piece of paper that says driving is a privilege
Found on the second paragraph of page ii of the Oregon Drivers Manual found here
http://www.odot.state.or.us/forms/dmv/37.pdf

"Driving is a privilege. You earn it by demonstrating on a DMV knowledge test that you know traffic safety laws and then by driving safely and passing a behind-the-wheel test.
You keep that privilege by driving safely for the rest of your life. Your safety – and that of your passengers, other drivers, pedestrians and bicyclists – depends on you. Driving safely is a never-ending responsibility."

I pay a lot of taxes for roads that do not come from car registration etc.
If you only rode a bicycle you would still be paying a lot of taxes for roads.

There is no bus, train or bike paths where I live. Only highway. So no,
I can't just ride other methods of transportation.

Elite snob.

That's right, even if you don't drive a car and only ride a bike or walk you still pay taxes on them. People who do drive pay more in registration fees and fuel taxes than those who choose not to, but yes we all pay those taxes regardless.

If there are no trails or busses or anything, highway and normal roads are still an option for bikes, there are long rides on highways all the time and a lot of people use normal roads and highways to commute on bike everyday. I understand if it's too far out that it's not preferable or even practical sometimes, but it is an option and you do have the right to choose those options.

You do have the Right to travel freely, you have the right to choose how you get around, but if you choose to do it by personal motor vehicle, you need to have that privilege to make that choice.

Also where do you get off on the name calling here? "Elite snob"? Really, how's that? Please elaborate.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

registration and driving licenses do NOT pay for roads.... they barely support the beaurocracy created to handle the paperwork and record keeping. Fuel and property taxes pay for the roads... and this IS a legitimate function of government, and has been since at least the Constitution. Besides, how often does anyone walk, ride a bus, bicycle, horse and buggy (think of the Amish) without using the public roads paid for by fuel and property taxes? Can't hardly do it.

As far as getting a DUI and losing your RIGHT to drive.... you've proven yourself irresponsible by driving snockered. Thus you are denied your RIGHT to drive on the public roads. It is exactly the same thing with firearms..... rob a bank with a sixgun, you forfeit your right to bear arms.... and vote..... and freely move about for a season (you'll almost certainly have ample opportunity to familiarise yourself with the back side of those long skinnny grey things at the local Greybar Hotel). WHY? You've proven yourself too irresponsible to exercise your RIGHT to keep and bear arms.... or, in the former case, drive.

It was not always so... when my Dad turned twelve, his Dad took him down to the courthouse in Churchill County, Nevada, and told the clerk there at the desk My son here is twelve years old today, and we'd like to get his driving license. The clerk took out a small piece of paper, filled in his name, where they lived, birthdate and place of birth..... Grandpa handed the clerk a quarter, they took the license and went home. Dad was now legal to drive.(two years later, he was THE schoolbus driver.... and he carried his .22 rifle with him nearly every day ON the bus.

Ya think a few things have changed since then? Have they REALLY changed for the better?

Nothing is better now except for technology, and that is a mixed bag

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Agreed, on all but the right to drive. Show me anywhere in writing that it says you have the right to drive a vehicle. I can show you a piece of paper that says we have the right to bear arms, I can also show you a piece of paper that says driving is a privilege
Found on the second paragraph of page ii of the Oregon Drivers Manual found here
http://www.odot.state.or.us/forms/dmv/37.pdf

"Driving is a privilege. You earn it by demonstrating on a DMV knowledge test that you know traffic safety laws and then by driving safely and passing a behind-the-wheel test.
You keep that privilege by driving safely for the rest of your life. Your safety – and that of your passengers, other drivers, pedestrians and bicyclists – depends on you. Driving safely is a never-ending responsibility."


That's right, even if you don't drive a car and only ride a bike or walk you still pay taxes on them. People who do drive pay more in registration fees and fuel taxes than those who choose not to, but yes we all pay those taxes regardless.

If there are no trails or busses or anything, highway and normal roads are still an option for bikes, there are long rides on highways all the time and a lot of people use normal roads and highways to commute on bike everyday. I understand if it's too far out that it's not preferable or even practical sometimes, but it is an option and you do have the right to choose those options.

You do have the Right to travel freely, you have the right to choose how you get around, but if you choose to do it by personal motor vehicle, you need to have that privilege to make that choice.

Also where do you get off on the name calling here? "Elite snob"? Really, how's that? Please elaborate.

Your "logic" would confine us to blackpowder flintlocks

 

[2zuks]

Anytime you have to get permission from the government, a license, to do anything it is considered a priviledge. That is the huge problem I have with concealed carry licenses. I am not saying that I agree that driving should be a priviledge, but that is what it is.

 

[phathom]

Your "logic" would confine us to blackpowder flintlocks

And what's wrong with blackpowder flintlocks :huh:

Seriously, how so? There isn't any logic to it, it's just how it is. I admit that getting around on foot or bike isn't as efficient, but it is still travel and will do the job, but not as good as a car could.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

And what's wrong with blackpowder flintlocks :huh:

Seriously, how so? There isn't any logic to it, it's just how it is. I admit that getting around on foot or bike isn't as efficient, but it is still travel and will do the job, but not as good as a car could.

So if the supreme court ruled that handguns were not protected by the second, you would hand yours over?

Rulings that violate the Constitution are not law, they are tyranny

 

[phathom]

So if the supreme court ruled that handguns were not protected by the second, you would hand yours over?

Rulings that violate the Constitution are not law, they are tyranny

Absolutely, bullets first

That is so true. I don't think it's right, I was just stating what it is.

 

[BLUE COLLAR IRONS]

We all used to be able to carry any kind of gun or weapon but as everyone knows mostly all of our rights got slowly chipped away by our communist govt.
Im not thinking for a second that all of us are suddenly gonna start getting our right s back. Or that our govt didnt this for some particular reason to suit their needs. But hey. what the ****. It great!! Im going to take my class this tuesday. Wish I didnt have to but I am american and should be able to exercise my right to bear arms.