Available .40 cal W/ these requirements?

[buick455]

So here's the deal I'm looking for a nightstand gun for my girlfriend and myself to train with. I would like to tap into the wealth of knowlege on this forum.

this is what I think I want and why.

.40 cal = this round seems to have enough velocity to expand well in hollw point form and is less likley to overpenetrate than 9mm. If I'm not mistaken .40 cal feed ramps are designed for feeding flat tip ammo.

Full size gun= for accuracy and recoil purposes I'm thinking about 4" barrel length min.

picanny rail= all nightstand guns should have a light maybe even a laser

DAO= this action is ultimately the most defenceable in court, most DAO guns have a better da trigger than their DA/SA counter parts, and they work best for snap-cap or dry fire training

Hammer fired = because striker fired guns do not have a "double strike" capability and they don't work for dry fire drills.

So i'm asking what have you guys used and did you like it.

this is what I have found and researched so far

SIG p250
FNP-40
HK p2000
Beretta 96d vertec
Beretta 90-two (do they make a DAO?)
SIG sigpro 2022

so what are your thoughts on these and what else you got?

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[PhysicsGuy]

The FNP is not DAO

 

[buick455]

GUN 2009 buyers annual said that it was available as a DAO and the picture in the mag shows a bobbed hammer. but I admit that I havent seen a DAO in the gun shops. I will do more research.

 

[NoAim]

I really dislike DAO guns.

That said, there's the father to the P2000, the USP Compact, and USP.

 

[buick455]

USP's have kind of an odd rail set-up i'd probably have to get an adapter, but I do like the longer barrel.

does any one know how the action is on a usp,is it smooth compared to the DA of a DA/SA SIG p226?

BTW: I'm DA/SA kind of guy but thought i'd try DAO out

 

[shlo812]

I have a Sig 250 in 45 ACP and a Beretta 92FS in 9mm. They're both really nice weapons. The Sig is a lot of gun a compact frame and is really nice composite gun. I like metal guns more than composite guns as a general rule, therefore I'm really like the Beretta 90 series. Plus the Beretta 90 series guns are pretty easy to find used and therefore are quite a bit less expensive.

 

[raindog]

.40 cal = this round seems to have enough velocity to expand well in hollw point form and is less likley to overpenetrate than 9mm. If I'm not mistaken .40 cal feed ramps are designed for feeding flat tip ammo.

I think both of these statements are questionable.

9mm Speer Gold Dot 124gr is 1220fps at Muzzle, 410 ft lbs
9mm +P Speer Gold Dot 124gr is 1150fps at Muzzle, 364 ft lbs
.40S&W Speer Gold Dot 150gr is 1200fps at Muzzle, 496 ft lbs

By all means, .40S&W is a sound choice and a great caliber, but "less likely to overpenetrate" is a bit specious. And either round is going to go through your sheetrock.

"Designed for feeding flat tip ammo" (by which I assume you mean JHP) is no more true for .40S&W than for 9mm. Any modern handgun of the kind you're discussing should feed JHP just fine. You should absolutely run a few boxes through it to make sure that particular brand/model works for your gun (some people say 200 rounds, but with the prices of ammo these days...)

picanny rail= all nightstand guns should have a light maybe even a laser

+10 points for you. I fully agree (about the light, not necessarily the laser).

DAO= this action is ultimately the most defenceable in court, most DAO guns have a better da trigger than their DA/SA counter parts, and they work best for snap-cap or dry fire training

I really don't think DAO is any more "defensable" than anything else. I suppose if you had some hair trigger gun, an overzealous prosecutor might get into that, but this really isn't on my radar when selecting a good home defense gun. "I bought this gun at a gun store and it is in the normal factory configuration. I used commercial off-the-shelf ammunition" is really all you need to say.

Hammer fired = because striker fired guns do not have a "double strike" capability and they don't work for dry fire drills.

I'm confused what you mean by this. By double strike do you mean double tap? That has zero to do with hammer vs. striker. For a drill, you are going to have to take some action after the first dry fire to make it fire again - whether cycling the action or cocking the hammer, neither of which you're going to have to do in real life, so...?

A .40S&W DAO gun gives you lots of choices, but adding in "hammer fired only" limits you unnecessarily from two of the best choices on the market: Glock and Springfield XD.

The Sig Pro 2022 is DA/SA, and has a DA conversion kit...that sounds less attractive than a native DAO gun.

The Sig P250 I wouldn't want to bet my life in - go read up at SigForum. Too many problems with it reported. It's very new and "ability to change calibers" is not something you need in a HD gun.

Personally, I think you need to think more about the "must be hammer-fired" requirement. I don't think it really buys you anything, and it excludes many guns. For home defense, I have a Glock - the most reliable handgun on the planet ("Your honor, I was shooting a Glock Safe Action pistol, just like my local police department uses.") A lot of people like Springfield XDs as well. Those are both very good DAO handguns.

BTW, other than the .40S&W requirement, you could also look at a revolver - they are DA hammer-fired

 

[buick455]

First, I never meant to have the things that I wrote to be taken as gospel.

So, I will try to clear things up.

I could be mistaken but larger diameter round traveling at 1200fsp will likley penetrate less than a smaller round traveling at apporximatly the same fps.

"some studies" have shown 9mm rounds to go through a "bad guy" and come out the otherside maybe into the room across the hall or out the window? or at least some police dept. gave this as part of a reason to switch to .40 cal. gel tests show that the .40 is right at the tipping point. and the .45 at like 800fps doesn't always expand well BTW: I like the 9mm, and wasn't trying to start THIS war.

after looking at my 9mm .40 and a .45 feed ramp it seems that the .40 I have seems to (as a ratio of bullet dia.) be wider and shallower and I assumed that was because .40 cal is not a military round that uses a ball nose. most of my .40 ammo is flat on the end. This was only meant to be an observation not sayin that newer style guns have trouble feeding jhp ammo.

now to the striker fired comments. How many times can you pull the trigger on that glock while doing dry-run drills I'm guessing just once and the same goes for a hard primer just once. not sayin that defence ammo is likley to have any problems. Is the Taurus 24/7 the only DA that can try at a primer twice? I thought that the other DAO's could

as far as DAO being more defenceable in court I see your point about the local law inforcment using it and and it being un-modified I wouldn't even consider any thing else. and in criminal court that should suit you just fine in a justifiable shooting, but in civil court YOU have to prove that it wasn't an accidental discharge that you tried to cover up, and if an over zealous lawyer for the family of the "poor under privlaged youth that was suffering from the tragic disease of addiction" can sway a jury. you have just lost your house.

did you really decock that DA/SA or did you just rack the slide and chase noise from down stairs. same will be asked of a 1911. did you set that safety?

of course this is just my personal opinion it might help me sleep at night

I shouldn't get into the mechanics of a striker fired pistol but I don't think it is double action.

So now to give raindog proper dues I hadn't thought about the sigpro being a DA conversion and it might give me pause.



SORRY for any typo's I went pblik skool

 

[motoman98]

I"m going to address the Sig P250 as I own a compact, a caliber change and a full size. Both purchased in the last three months.
I read many comments on the Sig Forum and seemed to me most negative remarks were old hat. I know Sig has been working on this platform for several years now (which manufacturer doesn't constantly improve new models?) and I think I am enjoying the results of their work. This design is a good one. I have been shooting for more years than I like to admit and I have never liked a DAO till now.
This trigger is smooth, smooth and you can SEE the hammer. I am working on my trigger squeeze as being from the SA school of shooting I have to actually learn now to be as smooth as my pistol. My accuracy is improving all the time: I know this gun shoots very well and also as reliably as my other sigs. Multiple times to the range and no, repeat NO failures of any kind in either 9mm, 40 S&W, or .45acp.
And yes, you can double strike a round if needed.
I do carry the P250 now and it's close by at night.
I am also a beliver in the .40 as a better self defense round.
True story: I have a friend whose friend who tended to be not very faithful to his wife...to the point that she emptied his 9mm into him in a heated argument being caught literally with his "pants down".
11 rounds struck him and afterwards when asked how he felt while recovering in the hospital, his reply was "like a sieve_________....like a sieve!"
They were probably hard ball, but 9mm is still not a big enough hole!
Also: Had a SigPro and sold it, good gun not great.

 

[buick455]

Thank you motoman98, this was the direction I was hoping this thread would take.

I like to here the SIG has their act together on that P250. you said that until now you were not a fan of the DAO's, what other kinds had a lesser trigger?

another question: what is the recoil like with the .40 in the P250 compared to other SIGs as I have owned a few like the p229?

 

[jakk586]

walther p99 as. hammerless dao w/ double strike capability, 40s&w, pic rail. very slick gun. has a decocker flush mounted on top of the slide. -$600 new, -$500 used. s&w makes a similar gun caled the sw99.

 

[motoman98]

Oh, I remember an AMT with a bad DAO trigger, never liked the bobbed DAO revolvers very much, had a Smith 10mm FBI semi DAO, and at least a couple other semi's I can remember trying ...just none that are as uniform throughout the trigger pull. That is the difference.
Recoil: The shape of the grip...remember you can get small, med, or large, has alot to do with felt recoil. If it fits your hand an experienced shooter can easily control the .40. If it didn't, the 9mm wouldn't be fun. However, the .40 is not the round to start your lady out with....(IMHO)work up to it and she will be a better shooter..

 

[otoe]

I like your choice of a 40 s&w, nice round. For a modest price the EAA Witness is a good choice. I have an older all steel piece that I just acquired and found to be a great shooter.

Good luck in your hunt for the right one...............................let us know what you end up with.

 

[krawl]

STI Tacitcal 5.0, nuff said. No it's not DAO, but meets all other requirements, excellent trigger, great capacity, etc.

 

[9MilMan]

Thank you motoman98, this was the direction I was hoping this thread would take.

I like to here the SIG has their act together on that P250. you said that until now you were not a fan of the DAO's, what other kinds had a lesser trigger?

another question: what is the recoil like with the .40 in the P250 compared to other SIGs as I have owned a few like the p229?

I have a P250 in 9mm. It is about a year old and has developed a FTE issue. It is going back to Sig.:huh::huh:

 

[PhysicsGuy]

I see a lot of talk about double strike capability, does anyone here actually train to double strike?

Most training has consisted of tap/rack clearing, since it solves the majority of any problems. Also because the time it takes to make a second strike is actually a considerable amount of time considering the length of defensive scenarios, also it does not guarantee that the round fires.

 

[dario541]

I haven't seen anything about Ruger handguns. Don't they, too, deserve a mention? I have a P89 in 9MM. It is a decocker model with NO safety to worry about. I personally feel that it is a fine weapon. Am I wrong? Would a newer model be better? Convince me!

 

[wagon]

I had an USPc 40 (sold), it was config to DA/SA, it had an early version of trigger, to me the initial DA is smooth enough for me. The current trigger in USP is supposed to be better than the old that I had. I'd hit the range and rent some to try them all out.

I have never shot a P226 to comment.

Good luck shopping.

USP's have kind of an odd rail set-up i'd probably have to get an adapter, but I do like the longer barrel.

does any one know how the action is on a usp,is it smooth compared to the DA of a DA/SA SIG p226?

BTW: I'm DA/SA kind of guy but thought i'd try DAO out

 

[parrotdog]

SIG 229 with a DAK trigger. Fits the bill in every respect you are looking for.

 

[smithmax]

I'm a big fan of the USP. I have one in .40S&W and love it. Mine is DA/SA, but I'm pretty sure you can find DAO variants. Like others said, get to a range and rent a couple to see which one fits you best.

Also, there are a few striker fired pistols that have a second strike capability (my new taurus 709 being one of them).