ATF Violates Citizen Rights Again!

[Member 24198]

And we trust judges and the ATF more? Na...not happening.

Never said that. There's two sides to a story.

 

[Koda]

^ This. Even a broken analog clock is correct twice a day. As much as I don't like the AFT, just because they raided someone, I'm not going to jump on the bandwagon against them. As gun owners, aren't we against criminals having guns?

Absolutely against criminals having guns. I'm all for abolishing the ATF but its not going to happen without evidence supporting the claim and will only make us look dumb if it turns out the guy was actually doing something illegal. Ive never heard of the guy till this thread so I don't have any reason to blindly trust who he is and from highly biased sources.
Nobody outside of the pro gun community is going to believe this story without evidence and its those people who will be the tipping vote on abolishing the ATF.

 

[butleraaronm]

Never said that. There's two sides to a story.

Look, after years of watching what cops do to people.. . I am over it. Yes, there are a lot of jerks that deserve a beating, but most dont.

Society is out of control . . . and I am going to yell every abuse from the mountaintop until I can't yell anymore. Enough is enough.

 

[Member 24198]

Look, after years of watching what cops do to people.. . I am over it. Yes, there are a lot of jerks that deserve a beating, but most dont.

Society is out of control . . . and I am going to yell every abuse from the mountaintop until I can't yell anymore. Enough is enough.

So what if this wasn't an abuse? Do you stop yelling or do you double down and support the perpetrator?

 

[CamoDeafie]

Never said that. There's two sides to a story.

Okay. What precisely is the crime?

Okay so the warrant is sealed, and the ATF isn't willing to talk about it,.beyond saying ""bad intel"" led to the raid on the "suspicion" of Mark being involved with drugs and weapons trafficking .

Mark has a fund and a lawyer on the basis that the ATF may go after him for whatever supposed crime and he may have to defend his innocence.

As of today so far, Mark has not been arrested and charged by the ATF.

This being Baltimore, Maryland........ How difficult do you think it is for anyone to get legal guns and be a legal gun owner and be black?

 

[butleraaronm]

So what if this wasn't an abuse? Do you stop yelling or do you double down and support the perpetrator?

If this happened to you . . . would you still be saying all of this? Really try to put yourself in that situation. Just do some research and you will see the guy is not someone that needed to be swatted.

 

[Member 24198]

Okay. What precisely is the crime?

Okay so the warrant is sealed, and the ATF isn't willing to talk about it,.beyond saying ""bad intel"" led to the raid on the "suspicion" of Mark being involved with drugs and weapons trafficking .

Mark has a fund and a lawyer on the basis that the ATF may go after him for whatever supposed crime and he may have to defend his innocence.

As of today so far, Mark has not been arrested and charged by the ATF.

This being Baltimore, Maryland........ How difficult do you think it is for anyone to get legal guns and be a legal gun owner and be black?

I don't know if there was a crime or wasn't a crime. My point has always been that the information is one sided, and I'm not about to jump to a conclusion one way or another based on the AFT sucking Richard.

 

[Koda]

If this happened to you . . . would you still be saying all of this? Really try to put yourself in that situation. Just do some research and you will see the guy is not someone that needed to be swatted.

Swatting isnt the same thing as claiming the ATF overreaching their authority.

 

[Member 24198]

If this happened to you . . . would you still be saying all of this? Really try to put yourself in that situation. Just do some research and you will see the guy is not someone that needed to be swatted.

Me, I know who I am. I'm college educated, licensed professional, makes more than most Americans, and I know I haven't broken any laws.

Some random dude in the world that has his door kicked in by the AFT? I don't know that guy. I don't know if he's law abiding or not. I don't know if he cheats on his wife. Honestly, I don't care. If it comes out that he's not guilty of anything but an overzealous AFT, I hope he sues the snot out of them.

 

[CamoDeafie]

And if there was indeed illegal things in his home after they reportedly tossed a flashbang into a living room and threatened to blow his safes..... He's not be a free man with a GoFundMe page.

And 70 legal guns (in BALTIMORE OF ALL PLACES ), apparently Metro police cleared him of shooting and killing an armed robber when he was employed as a security officer back in 2018 but because he didn't have a specific thing, he lost security officer license? And that's about it, as far as I could find on him.

And it seems he has a sizeable social media presence and involved with educating fellow gun owners and hosts events where people handle and learn about guns....

Again, if there's any crime found during the raid, we'd be reading of him being charged and in jail, yeah? But nope. He's free and still a legal gun owner (MD seems to be really hard on gun owners. Permanently lose guns/rights for serving a minimum of 2 years in jail for any crime)

 

[butleraaronm]

Swatting isnt the same thing as claiming the ATF overreaching their authority.

In the end the broken house and trauma are the same. Who pays for all the damage? Who pays for the legal fees? Who restores your damaged reputation? Who helps your kids trust again?

I meant 10 guys in full armor with automatic weapons showing up in a tactctical vehicle at 6am and breaking down your door and throwing a flashbang into the living room where your wife is. Screaming at your family who is now freaking out, marching everyone out in 30 degree weather and putting them in handcuffs. Finding nothing. . . then one guy saying sorry and leaving your life forever traumatized. Nope...not acceptable...period.

 

[Koda]

Okay so the warrant is sealed, and the ATF isn't willing to talk about it,.beyond saying ""bad intel"" led to the raid on the "suspicion" of Mark being involved with drugs and weapons trafficking .

I think a more profitable discussion is why police agencies are allowed to not disclose reasons for raids on citizens. That would go a lot more towards abolishing the ATF than gun channels making claims without evidence.

 

[Member 24198]

And if there was indeed illegal things in his home after they reportedly tossed a flashbang into a living room and threatened to blow his safes..... He's not be a free man with a GoFundMe page.

And 70 legal guns (in BALTIMORE OF ALL PLACES ), apparently Metro police cleared him of shooting and killing an armed robber when he was employed as a security officer back in 2018 but because he didn't have a specific thing, he lost security officer license? And that's about it, as far as I could find on him.

And it seems he has a sizeable social media presence and involved with educating fellow gun owners and hosts events where people handle and learn about guns....

Again, if there's any crime found during the raid, we'd be reading of him being charged and in jail, yeah? But nope. He's free and still a legal gun owner (MD seems to be really hard on gun owners. Permanently lose guns/rights for serving a minimum of 2 years in jail for any crime)

Again, if the AFT was overzealous, I hope he takes them to the cleaner, but I'm not about to jump on his side just because the AFT is on the other side. I'm all for fewer criminals running around.

 

[Koda]

In the end the broken house and trauma are the same. Who pays for all the damage? Who pays for the legal fees? Who restores your damaged reputation? Who helps your kids trust again?

I meant 10 guys in full armor with automatic weapons showing up in a tactctical vehicle at 6am and breaking down your door and throwing a flashbang into the living room where your wife is. Screaming at your family who is now freaking out, marching everyone out in 30 degree weather and putting them in handcuffs. Finding nothing. . . then one guy saying sorry and leaving your life forever traumatized. Nope...not acceptable...period.

agree with this part.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Again, if the AFT was overzealous, I hope he takes them to the cleaner, but I'm not about to jump on his side just because the AFT is on the other side. I'm all for fewer criminals running around.

You seem to think he has to be guilty of something?

And I am repeating... So far... He's still a free man. Still own guns. Still out of jail. ATF has not gone after him since then. Not even Metro Police has gone after him (Baltimore). He does have a sizeable YouTube channel subscriber number, a sizeable Instagram account. The only difference is he's black and has dreadlocks and likes gangsta rap it seems. But... "Culture"

I don't see a difference between him and CRS and yet, CRS guy is the one in Club Fed and Marks not. Only probably because the CRS guy publicly insulted the ATF

 

[Member 24198]

And it seems he has a sizeable social media presence and involved with educating fellow gun owners and hosts events where people handle and learn about guns....

This reminds me of a professor in charge of the nursing program at my wife's school. He was picked up in Potland cruising for prostitutes. She thought for sure he was innocent, especially considering how diligent he is with hand sanitizer.

It turns out he was cruising for a good time and he resigned. Just because your outward personality is good, doesn't mean you're innocent.

 

[Member 24198]

You seem to think he has to be guilty of something?

And I am repeating... So far... He's still a free man. Still own guns. Still out of jail. ATF has not gone after him since then. Not even Metro Police has gone after him (Baltimore). He does have a sizeable YouTube channel subscriber number, a sizeable Instagram account. The only difference is he's black and has dreadlocks and likes gangsta rap it seems. But... "Culture"

I don't see a difference between him and CRS and yet, CRS guy is the one in Club Fed and Marks not. Only probably because the CRS guy publicly insulted the ATF

I don't think he's guilty, but I also don't think he's not guilty. I don't have enough information.

 

[butleraaronm]

I think a more profitable discussion is why police agencies are allowed to not disclose reasons for raids on citizens. That would go a lot more towards abolishing the ATF than gun channels making claims without evidence.

I know this sounds absurd. . but it's just the deep state at work. Or call it the Matrix. Either way, the machine is now Godzilla. That is why I think in general it is good to stand together against the machine getting any larger. Cutting off funding is the best way to tame the beast. Need to vote in representation that is more concerned about the state of things than their political future. Unlikely this will ever happen, but gotta keep trying.

 

[butleraaronm]

You seem to think he has to be guilty of something?

And I am repeating... So far... He's still a free man. Still own guns. Still out of jail. ATF has not gone after him since then. Not even Metro Police has gone after him (Baltimore). He does have a sizeable YouTube channel subscriber number, a sizeable Instagram account. The only difference is he's black and has dreadlocks and likes gangsta rap it seems. But... "Culture"

I don't see a difference between him and CRS and yet, CRS guy is the one in Club Fed and Marks not. Only probably because the CRS guy publicly insulted the ATF

This!

 

[Member 24198]

I know this sounds absurd. . but it's just the deep state at work. Or call it the Matrix. Either way, the machine is now Godzilla. That is why I think in general it is good to stand together against the machine getting any larger. Cutting off funding is the best way to tame the beast. Need to vote in representation that is more concerned about the state of things than their political future. Unlikely this will ever happen, but gotta keep trying.

I'm all for this, but I'm not going to declare anybody innocent purely on being on the opposite side of the table as the AFT.